Dialed Cycling Podcast
We cover all things cycling, training, fitness, nutrition, racing, and sports tech through our countless years of cycling. In short, we have seen some stuff, so we draw off our experiences as masters cyclists who have been training and racing for the better part of our adult lives. Our typical podcasts include a weekly recap of our training and racing (The Backpedal), recent cycling news (The Leadout), and a new topic for each week. Thanks for checking out the Dialed Cycling Podcast!
Dialed Cycling Podcast
Dialed Podcast 349 - The new Wahoo Ace | All things FTP
We unbox the new Wahoo Elemnt ACE bike computer,
give our first impressions, and then spend some time discussing all things FTP. Enjoy the podcast!
Welcome to the Fit, Healthy and Happy Podcast hosted by Josh and Kyle from Colossus...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Jake: [00:00:00] Hi, and welcome back to the Dialed Podcast. I'm Jake von Duering. I'm here with Lance friggin Heppler.
Matt: Lance friggin Hepler starting to drinkin early. Booze. Booze and Hep. Booze and Hepler.
Lance: I'm hitting it with the LaCroix. LaCroix. That's French for fancy water. For crappy tasting water.
Jake: But stay tuned. Lance might be drinking something else in a little bit.
Jake: No,
Matt: we gotta figure out what Lance and I bet on. If any of our listeners are tuning in and they remember what Lance and I bet on, I don't remember. I feel like we probably make bets like every other podcast and I usually win all of them. That's true. But I don't remember what they were. So it's basically like, so I won.
Matt: Yes. No, I'm kind of like making a bet with like a goldfish. Cause I'll just be like, Oh, bright lights. Oh, wait, what were we talking about? All
Jake: right. To his right.
Ian: Sir Gibson. Hey. Hello. That's all I gotta say.
Matt: He's here to party.
Ian: Come on, man. Hey, this is Gibson, and I'm [00:01:00] enjoying my post COVID, disease free weeks of training and having a good time.
Ian: There you go. There
Jake: we go. There was zero British nomenclature in there. Nope. That's a fail. Frickin ranker. I've now been in the United
Ian: States for 30 years, sir. Sod off,
Lance: you
Matt: wanker. Tis right, Matt the Grand. What's up, ladies and gentlemen of the internet? You guys look fan freaking tastic. Fan freaking tastic.
Matt: Fan freaking tastic, yep. I'll take that. We'll take it. That's always good.
Jake: Matt, would you care to start us off?
Matt: Backpedaling?
Jake: With some backpedaling?
Matt: I I think that I've mostly been running trails. Mostly running trails. I've been in the water a couple of times. Been coaching, uh, high school swim. Which is such an odd thing, because I feel, I feel like I'm a, I'm a runner.
Matt: Or a But are you? A running coach, for sure, compared to swimming. But swimming's different, because you can really Make corrections. Do you swim good
Lance: enough to be able to be a coach for other people? Yes [00:02:00] and
Matt: no. Okay. Uh, when, so one of the things. I assume that you do. This week was like breaststroke, like we're teaching breaststroke like, hey, I can't really help you guys.
Matt: I don't. Because I was in the water and I'm like trying to show breaststroke kick, which is the thing that I am the worst at with swimming. And I'm like, like this, except for you're supposed to actually go forward. You're supposed to move when you, you know, it's like, oh, I'm like going nowhere. It's not working.
Matt: It's pretty, it's pretty bad. Wait! That's it. I, I'm sure that there was some Zwifting, but I don't think I rode outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gibbo.
Ian: Um, yes, I've been riding my bike outside and in, uh, deep into my extended transition season. So, not particularly training. Um, I am on a diet. I am trying to lose some weight and it sucks.
Ian: I'm hungry all the time. And so the purpose of my bike riding is just to try to increase the amount of calories that I'm able to consume.
Lance: When you're calorie restricting and you try to do [00:03:00] like a workout, you
Ian: end up even more hungry.
Lance: It doesn't, it doesn't work. You can do like zone two and zone one writing and be calorie restricted, but, but nothing more than that.
Lance: Otherwise you just. Yeah, you're not doing yourself any good.
Jake: It's always funny too. How your mind goes straight to like, I just did that. I'm going to eat whatever the hell I want. Right. Yes. And you're like, dang it. I shouldn't have done that after the fact. And then right, we'll try again tomorrow. And then right back in the same thing over again.
Jake: Oh, well,
Ian: no, see, I mean, seriously, it is. It's about timing your calories, I guess, in this. Uh, uh, at the moment, just I have enough to finish my workout, but then I'm like, oh, that's all I've got now till dinner time.
Lance: Then you have to make yourself busy. Sit around and want to snack.
Ian: Yeah. Okay. Um, that's it. How much more to report.
Lance: Yep. Yep. I rode bikes. Do you race? There's no racing anymore, right? Uh, there's a race this weekend. Okay. The last cyclocross race has happened down in Eugene, Oak [00:04:00] Hill Cyclocross. Are you going? I'm not. It's Saturday and Sunday. It's down in Eugene. It's probably going to be wet. It was really muddy and nasty last year.
Lance: I am
Ian (2): Do you need to defend your bra points? No, I don't. Okay.
Lance: Yeah. I think the guy I was competing with, I think he injured himself, so he's not racing anymore either. He's some 60 year old idiot like you. On a damn barrel team. Damn
Ian (2): old guys.
Lance: Uh, yeah. Funny enough, I've still been trying to ride outside a little bit here and there, and last night I went out right at dusk, because I just, I just got a brand new rear wheel.
Lance: So I have, on my road bike, I have these really nice Zipp 353 wheels. My rear wheel, I've been riding that bike for, uh, Um, what? A year? Almost a year? And the rear wheel started creaking and making noise, and I could not solve it. It wasn't in the axle, it was something to do with the With the, the spokes, [00:05:00] this Zip, Zip 350 wheel.
Lance: It just, the way they rubbed against each other, it just creaked all the time. Drove me nuts. Did you ever try to put like a little bit of grease on it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tried cleaning between the spokes, and then greasing between the spokes, and then tensioning them all right, and it still made noise.
Lance: You just put headphones on
Ian (2): so you can't hear it. Yeah, I just turned the music up. Turn the music up.
Lance: Um, so, I finally sent it back to Zip, and they just sent me a brand new wheel. Yeah, I was like, oh wow. Thank you easier for them Yes, so they sent me a brand new wheel Um, I put a brand new tire on it and went out and and nine miles into that ride on a brand new tire I hit something and ripped a sidewall.
Lance: I was trying to tell the story before and I was all What do you think you hit ticked off? It wasn't a rock. I think there was something in there's weird stuff vancouver lake, right? I was on my way to vancouver lake some
Ian (2): fud Some who? Foreign object debris. Oh, okay. Fod. Aviation [00:06:00] talk.
Matt: Oh. I feel like there's, there's a lot of like weird shipping stuff and just like trucks that are dropping metal pieces and weird stuff out there.
Matt: It's
Lance: just past this big section of homeless camps too. And there's more trash in the lane at the homeless camps. But, anyway. I was out riding. I did not have my spare tube with me. I did have plugs. And so I plugged it, and hit it with my CO2, and it lasted 200 meters. And so, I went to put in it, I told it wrong before, I went to put in another plug, and I pushed the first plug all the way in.
Lance: So, so I was trying to like, put another plug right next, side by side, and I ended up just pushing the one plug all the way in, and I thought, That makes sense, yeah. So it's rattling around inside the tire, the plug, cause those, uh, Those plugs have little metal tips on them. Yeah. So, then I, I rode for another half mile and it went, [00:07:00] it went flat again.
Lance: So now I'm out of CO2, and I'm using my little tiny mini hand pump, and, you know, I pumped that thing a thousand freakin times. I finally had to pull out my plu I had a few plugs. I put two plugs in side by side so they stayed in. And that worked. And then my, my little thing has a little knife on it so that you can cut off the excess and I snapped that thing off while I was trying to It is a thin little knife, I know which one you're talking about.
Lance: So the knife snapped off and I'm like, oh my gosh. Anyway, I made it home. I didn't have to do the call of shame. So, it held. But that tire's toast. Thank you for those nine glorious miles. Tire. Stupid thing. That was also freezing cold, because it, yeah, okay, shut up, Lance. And then your
Matt: hands are freezing trying to work on little things.
Matt: Yes, and the sun had gone down by that point. Jake, you got any backpedaling for us?
Jake: No. Okay,
Matt: fair enough.
Jake: I have not ridden a bike in over two weeks now, um, per [00:08:00] doctor's orders. I'm off the bike right now for the foreseeable future. You're in
Matt: decent shape before, so I'm guessing it's going to come back quick.
Jake: Yeah, should be. I mean, I was off the bike for 10, 11 months and I was able to snap back probably within about six or eight weeks into decent form and by the end of the summer, I was feeling pretty good. So
Matt: three weeks and this is a good time. If you're going to take time off now, it's a good time to do it.
Matt: Yeah.
Jake: Um, yeah, not really much though to report on mine. The things I did mention that I was having surgery, which I did this past Monday and everything went really well. I'm still dealing with a little bit of the, uh, post surgical woes, just like the rehab process, but the function of the surgery was a tremendous success.
Jake: So, um, I don't know if we need to get into this right now, maybe another podcast, another time, but, um. Put a whole
Lance: podcast on it. You need to come to terms a little bit more with what we can discuss. Okay. Let's get away from it You know,
Jake: I do want to say one thing though. Thank you to everybody who reached out.
Jake: There are so many of you and I wasn't, I didn't really tell very many people, although I did mention on the [00:09:00] podcast last week that I was having surgery, I didn't say anything about it. It's really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but my God, did I get a lot of messages from people? So that, that kind of made me happy.
Jake: So thank you to every one of you who reached out and reached me well and asked how things were going and asked if you could help. Super cool. I just, I just made fun of him over
Matt: text messages. As you should.
Jake: As you should.
Matt: I texted him terrible things too. I was like, fuck. I had like ideas for ways to like hook bike things up and like, I got ideas.
Matt: Yeah. Got ideas. Those were fun. You and I were on the same wavelength. Yes. Mad. Not supportive. Yeah. Not supportive. How
Lance: can you make fun of Jake in his hour of need? Yeah, that's what we did. I
Jake: sent Lance a special picture, though.
Lance: It actually didn't come through. The picture didn't? The picture didn't come through.
Lance: So I never saw it.
Jake: Oh, I'll have to send it again.
Lance: Okay.
Jake: You'll get that here in a few minutes. All right. Well, anything else you guys want to backpedal?
Matt: That's it? No. What's next? Cham Bailey? Ohhhh. Let's rock out for a second
Jake: here.
Matt: Nice. Can
Lance: [00:10:00] you hit
Jake: the
Champ Song: mic?
Jake: Fake news, baby. Fake
Lance: news. Cham is here with all your fake news.
Lance: Fake no pants news. I did walk you to the house naked today a couple times just so that you guys, uh, Thank you. Yeah. From the, uh, washing machine to the, uh, bathroom. Gotta get there somehow. Uh, what's happened, uh, two big things have happened this last, uh, in just in the last couple days. Uh, Pidcock has officially left Ineos, so finally that all kind of came through.
Lance: Um, he's going to a very small pro continental team that will immediately raise the, the level of that team, it's called Q36. 5 or something like that? Which, you know, they pay the big bucks, they're gonna Is that a radio station?
Matt: Yes, it is. They're doing that to become a major
Lance: player. Correct. So, um, I, I'm guessing that it's a British company.
Lance: It's a, it's a cycling clothing company. Uh, and he wants to be a leader on a
Matt: [00:11:00] team and he needs to move to do that.
Lance: So it'll, it'll be interesting. I mean, will they get, will the team get a Tour de France invitation with him on it? Maybe not, but a Vuelta invitation? Probably. Will he be able to do all those one day races he wants?
Lance: Yes. So anyway,
Matt: he
Lance: does he want a
Matt: tour? Does he want to be the guy at the tour to France? That's a good question. Cause that, that hasn't sure. All of that was taken into account when he was all taken into account. Yeah. So it's all good.
Lance: Steve Cummings
Ian: also last also left the Grenadiers, right? He has, I think he was the.
Ian: He, he was not the director sport. He was one of the sport directors, but not the director. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he's left and gone to Jayco. Jayco. That's right.
Lance: Yeah. Steve Cummings has gone to Jayco and they could use a little bit more, um, Help with strategy. I think Jayco so that could be interesting The other big thing that happened was Remco Evanpool.
Lance: Yeah [00:12:00] crashed his bike so he was on a training ride near Brussels, Belgium, and he He got doored so something that could happen to any of us at any time He was riding and there was a postal worker that opened the door right at the wrong time and Remco hit the door Um, he broke, he broke his shoulder blade, he broke his wrist, and some ribs.
Lance: So he is off the bike for a little while. He had to go to the hospital and have surgery to have those things repaired. So, um. Kind of a he and he was riding his gold metal Specialized nap. I have to snap the top tube in half that that bike is gone done Yeah,
Matt: no, no, we're not giving you another bike One per customer buddy
Lance: So kind of a bad thing A lot of people have shared all this hate on the postal worker.
Jake: [00:13:00] Hold on quick question Question for you on all of this two years ago. We all would have been laughing at him true big six went down You know, yeah Just did you still carry that same sentiment for him or do you kind of feel a bit bad for the guy?
Matt: I feel bad for the guy Any anyone that has a bad crash like that?
Matt: I mean, you don't want to see anybody get hurt
Jake: Maybe just his persona. Do you, do you, do you feel bad for his persona? He's also
Matt: kind of proven himself in the past year to be, to be a serious big sixer type person. I mean, he's, he's quite good. He won the Olympics road race
Lance: and the time trial. Yeah, he's had big races.
Lance: World champion, yep. And world champion in, uh, time trial. Mm hmm. Yeah, dude. I mean, how do you, it's hard to mock the guy when he's backing it up. We'll find a way. Okay.
Jake: Is there a little Evan Pohl growing up finally? Maybe he's growing up a little bit. Not so much of a jackass anymore. Just a little less jackassry.
Lance: So the, the postal worker was getting a whole bunch of heat for taking out the world champion or the Olympic champion, right? Not his [00:14:00] fault. And it really wasn't, he just probably, it was a woman and in, so Remco made a, Uh, Instagram post, uh, saying hey, I fractured my shoulder blade and I had a training accident and I'm very grateful, blah, blah, blah.
Lance: And he said a special mention to my wife, or family, and for standing in me. And then he also said, I also want to express my support to the woman who was involved in the accident. So, he, he's trying to kind of take the heat off of her, because, um. Well,
Jake: not for nothing. If it's going to be anybody's fault, it's kind of his.
Jake: Yeah, was he riding too close? Was he riding too fast? No, you're not supposed to open
Matt: your door without looking in the mirror.
Lance: True, but how fast do you think he was going? Enough to break his freaking top tube. Well, I mean Yeah
Matt: At the
Jake: end of the day you as the cyclist you need to be careful So aware of that and I I tell this to people all the time If there's cars and they're parked you have to assume that every single time you go by that car that [00:15:00] door is gonna open I was gonna say the exact
Matt: same
Jake: thing.
Jake: I always assume
Matt: I'm assuming that that door is gonna open And I'm, I'm giving myself even more space because someone's gonna step out to you. Okay, but these are little,
Lance: narrow, European roads. He's out in rural area in these, he was 15 minutes from town. He was 15 miles outside of Brussels, so he wasn't like,
Jake: Take the lane.
Lance: Right, I know. Take the lane. I mean, you gotta think, he probably even had a follow car with him. Maybe not, if he, if, cause the, the woman helped, like, took care of him. And she recognized him immediately. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh my gosh, this is Remco. I think she said Big Six.
Matt: Big Six down! Wait, this is Remco. He's one of the Big Six.
Matt: No, if this is
Jake: like a What was it? The OPO moth thing, the sign from the tour de France. That's one thing that that's a hundred percent on the spectator. The, the cyclist, not their fault at all. Even though there's people all over the place, you get the whole road. They get the F out of the way in that situation.
Jake: Again, you have to treat every single car door [00:16:00] like it's going to open into you.
Matt: And I guarantee you all four of us are cyclists and we were out on the road. And I guarantee you when we park, we'd. Don't even look in the mirror when we open that door so many times. I'm sure I've made that mistake. So hopefully I'm not doing that into a bike lane.
Matt: I almost
Jake: never park on the road where there's bikes that are going to be going by, but I know that's a good question. I don't know what I look. I probably take a little bit more of a look than the average person, but would I look enough to see if Evan or Evan Poole is coming? Yeah. I 30 miles an hour and you glance in your mirror, he could be not there one second and there the next.
Jake: So, yeah.
Lance: And you're grabbing the mail to put in the mailbox, and you open the door, and you're not, I don't know, yeah.
Jake: Yeah, that's kind of another question, too. If they're on that side of the road, the door, everything usually happens on the side of the car where the mail's at, so. Right, not on the outside.
Ian: Well, it's different in Europe. I think they actually get out of the vehicles to deliver the mail, because most mail, One of those boxes are in people's front doors. You don't usually have a mailbox by the side of the road So you get out of the [00:17:00] mail van. No,
Jake: I come from a family of postal workers My grandfather and my mom were both postal carriers and you the the door in the it was like a european car Everything was on the right side of the car.
Jake: So I'd imagine that everything in their cars can be on the left side because it's going to be a lot faster for them to exit the car and go straight to the house as opposed to getting out, walking through traffic, walking around the front of the car and then going to the house. They're going to optimize that so they keep the person in safe.
Jake: It's hard
Ian: to speculate, you know, most in, uh, in urban areas, most people, most mail is delivered on foot or by bike. Um, so it's just, she was out in the countryside. It's not the same setup at all. It's like, it's like delivering the papers, right? The newspapers. When I had a paper around, when I was a kid, you actually had to go to every door and push the paper through the newspaper through the front door of the house.
Ian: You can't just chuck it on the front yard in the snow. Exactly. For Thruppence an hour. For
Lance: Thruppence?
Ian: Now we're talking. That's [00:18:00] three pennies. This
Jake: has been Thruppence Talk.
Lance: I got your Thruppence right here. I'll take your Thruppence and raise your shilling. Is there any other news? Uh, no. Well, there was the second UCI cyclocross race happened in Dublin.
Lance: So, they went across the pond a little bit to do a cyclocross race. Uh, no, no Vanderpool, no, wow, no Pidcock. None of those guys are in there yet. Yeah, but it
Ian: was a great race. The men's races.
Lance: The men's race was very good. There was, there was like seven guys, like all like battling off the front.
Matt: Does Pitcock's contract start next year?
Matt: Yes, the January 1st. So he won't race until No. Yeah, so that makes sense.
Lance: Yeah. So, um, plus the big time for cyclocross is Christmas period.
Matt: Yeah, that's right. They have like Christmas and they have like 10 races or something.
Lance: 10 [00:19:00] races in like, in 12 days, in one day, in a day.
Jake: Were there any official or unofficial, would be even better, statements made from Enios?
Lance: Um, I don't know.
Jake: I feel like it's been pretty quieted. That popped, I saw it yesterday. And as a matter of fact, I took a screenshot and sent it to you guys. Yeah. Kind of saw the writing on the wall. You thought he was going to stay there for a minute, but I'm curious. Like what, what's your take on this?
Lance: Uh, a couple of weeks ago, there was, uh, an event in, in England somewhere where they had like, um, they had the cycling people on stage.
Lance: It it's some kind of cycling event in England. I don't know what it is, but, but they had Pidcock on stage and they asked Pidcock, Hey, um, are you. It looks like that you're going to stay with, you know, Ineos. Have, has that relationship been repaired? And are, are you going to be good with them going forward?
Lance: And there were Ineos people in the audience. And Pidcock, his answer was, [00:20:00] I'm not going to lie. No. So this was two weeks before this, this actually came out. So he like, he like manned up and just said, A little
Jake: chirpy.
Lance: Yeah, he's like, no, it's, it, it, I can't go beyond, I can't tell you anything more than that, but.
Lance: Wow. Basically, no, the relationship is fractured and it's over. So we kind of knew it was coming. Yeah. but it just hadn't, they couldn't do anything official because it's not over till the end of the, I don't know why they finally decided it was okay to announce, but it was announced just yesterday. Was it yesterday?
Lance: Yeah. Before. Yeah. So kind of close.
Ian: I always thought Pickard had a kind of peculiar position within INEOS anyway. Like he wasn't really, he was on their grand tour squad, but he, he couldn't really say he was a domestique and he wasn't really a leader. Right. Um, you know, he, he's the front guy for some of the Classic races, the one day races that Ineos entered, but, um, [00:21:00] it was, it was the regular Ineos leaders and their backup riders plus Pitcock.
Ian: I don't quite know where he would go in some
Matt: stages, but he wouldn't necessarily be a domestique like helper. They did
Jake: send him in as the GC for the tour. Was it two or three years ago? And he pretty much folded. Four or five days into it.
Lance: Four or five days. Then he lost a bunch of time and that's why he was able to win the Alpe d'Huez stage because he had lost enough time that they let him kind of go.
Lance: And then he got too far away and they couldn't pull him back. Yeah.
Ian: So anyway, good luck to him. Yeah. It's going to be tricky on that team.
Lance: We'll definitely raise the level of that team and the exposure for that team, having him on it. And that's what they're trying to do. And he's getting paid now. So maybe he can do all the races he wants to do.
Jake: All right, good. I wonder if they've got deep pockets and they're gonna bring in some support.
Lance: They do have, um, the, the owner of that team has some deep pockets. All
Jake: right.
Lance: So, but there's not that many other, most people's rosters [00:22:00] are set at this point. They're not going to be able to pull in a lot of Good support for him at this point.
Lance: So
Jake: true. I don't know. We'll see.
Lance: Yeah, that's a lot of Pitcock talk. Wow. I don't even know. Pitcock talk. Yeah. All right. What else? Anything else? Okay. So the cyclocross race in Dublin, uh, we all, it looked like, okay, little Ellie Easter bit. I should not say it that way, but. He's a little guy. Um, he will stomp on your bike.
Lance: So he won the first race and so he was actually doing quite well. His teammate, uh, Michael Van Tower now they've been kind of one, two in people at these races. Uh, and then Van Tower now hit a stake and snapped the boa off his. His shoe, and so he, he had to stop in the pit and actually change a shoe and you lose like 10 seconds doing that.
Champ Song: Yeah.
Lance: So this was like lap three of eight. Bike change is [00:23:00] easy compared to Bike change is easy. You don't have, you don't lose momentum with bike change, but stopping, pulling off your shoe, putting on another one, it's kind of a different ballgame. But, uh, still van tower now was able to catch back up with the lead, like four guys and just made the right move at the right time.
Lance: And he won. So van touring out one, uh, tune arts was second. Uh, the Spanish guy, um, or teens or it's
Ian: Philippe.
Lance: Yeah. Philippe or it's, he was third and Ellie ended up fourth. So, um, it was an exciting race to watch. Um, interestingly enough in the women's race. Femme Van Ampel, who is the reigning world champion, has not lost a UCI cyclocross race in over a year, like, in like 14 months.
Lance: And she got beat by Lucinda Brand. Wow. So, she, Femme Van Ampel did flat, and was able to change her bike pretty quickly, but [00:24:00] could, Lucinda Brand was just like, Motivated and she couldn't pull her back. So listen to Brandon ended up winning that race fan by an ample second. So pretty interesting. Other than that, that's it.
Lance: That's all I got.
Jake: One more quick question for you, champ. We've got just under a week before we start the U S national cyclocross championships.
Lance: Yes.
Jake: You got any, uh, any info on that? Any, any pics? Anybody we should be keeping an eye on? Do we know anybody heading out that way?
Lance: It's, it's a good question. I, I think we have a teammate or two going out there.
Lance: I think Whitney, um, Yeah, she's a, yeah. Is like her third year. Yeah. Or fourth or something. Maybe even more
Jake: than that. Is her brother old enough to go this year? I don't believe so. He's
Lance: ten. I think that's, isn't
Jake: that right? Well, I think he's race age eleven. Oh, so he might be, maybe, I have no
Lance: information on that.
Lance: Um, in the, in the pro field, in the elite fields, um, Andrew Strohmeyer, uh, has been winning a lot of the American records. [00:25:00] He was at that Dublin race and took 17th in the UCI, which is actually pretty good, pretty good. Um, Kerry Werner has been racing really well. Um, so, it should be interesting to see what happens at Nationals.
Lance: You've got Eric Bruner, Kerry Werner, Curtis White, Andrew Strohmeyer, Scott Funston. Those are like the five big names that I think will battle for the championship. Anybody
Ian: from our neck of the woods? Pacific Northwest?
Lance: I don't think so.
Ian: No. Hmm. Borsier not going?
Lance: Who?
Ian: Paul?
Lance: Oh, I have no idea. He might be. Paul Borsier, he might be going.
Lance: Gotcha.
Jake: Um, there's a 10 and under non championship race that's 20 minutes long, and then there is a junior men's and women's uh, 11, 12 year old. So, uh, I think Carter could be old enough now. I think he has raised age 11 for cyclocross. Yeah. Let us, let us
Lance: know.
Jake: We'll find out next week. Hayden's let us know.
Lance: Yeah. I believe it's next week, like [00:26:00] Wednesday through Sunday, I think is the races. It's in Louisville, Kentucky.
Jake: Yep. The 12th through the 15th in Louisville.
Lance: The last, uh, national champions that were held in Louisville was an absolute mud fest where there was. per lap, there was two and a half minutes of writing per lap.
Lance: And the rest of it was running, it was so muddy. So, uh, hopefully it's not quite that muddy and it's more of a bike race than a cross country running race, like. Idiots, so silly cross country All
Matt: right, what's next um, that's it that's all I got out camp out
Jake: Thank You champ Bailey. We really appreciate that being him news Before we get to that.
Jake: Okay one more quick thing here Well, fan bit. Oh fan.
Lance: We, we still don't have a name for that. We don't have name for this fan. Bit
Jake: Fred Fan. Bit Fan. . Fano. We used to do the, the lead, not the lead out. That's [00:27:00] the news bit. The hot lap. We used to do the listener hot lap. So maybe I think we might need to do a playoff of that.
Jake: All right. Anyway, we did get one that came through so I wanted to bring it up real quick. Yeah, let's hear it So this this listener had a question for us And i'm going to turn this down a little bit because I can't even hear myself think right now Um, they want us to do a little bit of a survey and put something out there I'm thinking maybe we can put up a little poll like on the uh, the facebooks or something like that They want to know which one of these we could do and it's going to be sram versus shimano All right, that's good one.
Jake: Everybody's ram versus shimano. I mean i've got a different favorite there. I like sram Matt's gonna say shimano Of course it can't be, um, Garmin versus Wahoo, which will be a good segue to what we're going to talk about here in just a second. And then the last one, which is really super interesting.
Jake: Lance versus an AI co host.
Lance: No, yes, AI co host. Replace me with an AI co host. That's that's hard to be hard to be. It's a lot smarter than me, but probably no, the actual results of races instead of making things [00:28:00] up.
Jake: So anyway, we appreciate that. And I'm going to, I'm going to figure out a place to post that up where everybody can kind of go vote on that.
Jake: And maybe we'll put up all of them. Maybe we'll do one a week for a little bit, but, um,
Matt: we do speaking of Garmin versus Wahoo.
Jake: One quick second. We do want to hear from people. Matt is just chomping at the bit right now. There's more people.
Matt: Wait, there's more people to hear from.
Jake: There are.
Matt: Let's
Jake: hear it.
Jake: Well, there's not more people, but, um, we want more people. This is a good segue
Ian: when he hears one. If
Jake: you've got questions, you've got feedback, you've got funny things to say, you want us to talk about anything, you want to be on the pod, any of that stuff. There's a little button there on your player likely now.
Jake: Speaking of buttons. Text, exactly. Text the show. It says, send us a text. Send us a text.
Lance: And so it's a hot link, you hit it, and you get to text
Jake: us. I've looked at it on a couple different platforms, and they're in all of them, and it just kind of pipes through. And again, we don't get your full phone number, we get your last four digits, and we won't know who you are unless you indicate who it is, but we'd love to hear from you, so.
Jake: Matt, what is it that you were just beating the doors [00:29:00] down with? What do you got going on here? What is that brown box you got
Matt: 3rd, Wahoo announced their latest and greatest cycling computer, which we've actually talked about on the podcast. But now it's in hand. We've got the box here in hand. Jake has the box in studio, if you will.
Matt: And we can open it up on air and just pass it around. Open that
Jake: up and see what's in there real quick. Is that, is that a Wahoo Ace or is that my old BlackBerry?
Matt: Way bigger than your, your old BlackBerry. Oh,
Jake: okay. Oh yeah, that is, that's an Ace. This is the Wahoo
Matt: Ace. And let's pass it around so people can kind of give their, their impressions.
Matt: Large and in charge. Large Marge. Large Marge in charge. This is a
Lance: very big computer. Looks like they, Wahoo has made it to, uh, to compete with the, uh, Garmin 1050. Yeah. It's a hair bigger than the 1050. Yeah. Too.
Jake: There's a lot of people that came out and said it's the biggest computer on the market. I think there's one little obscure [00:30:00] one that's a tiny bit bigger, so.
Jake: I don't know. They didn't get that.
Ian: It's big and it's heavy. I mean, it's over 200,
Jake: it's over 200 grams. I think it's like 210 grams. I could pull up to 606 grams, 204 grams, something like that. It's
Ian: over 200 grams, which is, that's not going to work for me. Well, you know what, when we first saw it now, 8 percent body fat, it's just, it's got to,
Jake: when we first saw it, Lance made a really good comment and I tend to agree with him, that is a fantastic computer for.
Jake: Just training and going out and doing some touring around just basically anything that's not racing. That's gonna be a fantastic computer if you're worried about weight What do you think? I mean, yeah, because
Ian: then you take it off your bike and suddenly you're going uphill two miles an hour faster.
Ian: That's worth it, right? That's a little overload
Jake: principle there for you, for your training. Uh, for
Ian: sure. I'm just kidding you, but yeah, in a race, I wouldn't want to have it, but for training, it would be great for me because my. Poor eyesight. I could see it better. Yeah. And [00:31:00] also I hear it's got a lost
Lance: out there all the time.
Lance: Right.
Ian: And apparently it's got a speaker on it as well. So it'll actually tell you what it's
Lance: yeah, right. There's the speaker. Nice. Yeah. Yeah.
Ian: So yeah, that's good. Yeah.
Lance: Yeah. They're about 600 bucks. Uh, which is not, that's, that's better than expected. I think that the Garmin 1050s are more than that.
Matt: Yeah, 100 more basically.
Matt: Yeah, 100 more. There's also a solar edition of the 1040 that's 150 more. So these are pricey computers.
Lance: There's no doubt about that. A couple of great features that this have. So the maps are bigger. The, um, you can pinch in and out of the map because it has a touch. It has a touch screen. First, first Wahoo device with a touch screen, first Wahoo with a touch screen.
Lance: It does have a bell, a bell, bike bell, like, uh, the 10 50 also has you double tapped a screen and the little speaker. I would imagine
Ian: it's got a pretty sizable battery in it, right? [00:32:00]
Matt: Yeah, they're saying, okay, so there's the backstory on that is like 30 hours. However, there's that, that's with a screen timeout.
Matt: That's like only lighting it up for like five seconds. I think part of
Jake: their thought process though, is it's supposed to use the ambient sunlight to help them. Brighten up the screen when it's in the sun, at least that's what I've seen and read and heard in some of the videos that I've reviewed, but it still sounds like in a lot of situations, you're not going to want that.
Jake: You're going to want the screen on full brightness. Um, but there is some sort of special display that it's supposed to like. Use the light from the sun to help illuminate the actual screen. I'll pull up the, the exact specifics on that, but I thought that was kind of interesting and that's how they're coming up with that 30 hours.
Jake: I think Matt alluded to the fact that it's much less if you don't do that. And I think it's more in the ballpark of what, like 14 or 15 hours, which is still pretty good, but
Lance: if you keep it on like auto brightness where it brightens. You know, compared to the sun, um, it's, it's like 12 to 15 hours or [00:33:00] something like that, which should be plenty for almost anything you do other than multi day.
Lance: It's better
Matt: than the Hammerhead crew. Well, or similar to the Hammerhead crew three, but remember the Hammerhead crew two, which we all kind of were like, yeah, this is, you know, you do a hundred miler and you're like, Oh, we're pretty pushing to the limit here. Uh, so yeah, this is going to get you through You know those sentry rides for sure
Lance: interesting about the navigation is you can now have it set to give you audible Directions.
Lance: I need that. Yes, like left turn ahead.
Jake: Yeah, there was a Another asterisk on that though, and I think DC Rainmaker Matt will probably attest to this too Because you probably watch the video It said something that it kind of rang true with me the voice that they used with that in the You The octave or whatever tone that that's at.
Jake: And when you're writing in the wind, when you mesh the two things up, it almost like it doesn't cancel out the voice, but it makes it really hard to hear. So they, again, this thing came out undercooked little, not fully [00:34:00] baked and it's, it's, it's got all of the, the hardware that it needs. It's got the bones, the foundation, but there's, there's some iterations that are going to need to come.
Jake: No Strava
Matt: segments, for example, that would be hard for you guys. Yeah, I think, um, I think I found it very odd that like the Rome and the Bolt are so well baked and this one not being as much. And then, uh, Ray did mention, and then I think there's someone else also, but like there that they're basically saying like, yeah, it was a complete rewrite.
Matt: So. Doing that means they're not going to be, it's not going to be as polished when you have to rewrite the entire code base for a new product.
Jake: If you go to Wahoo's website, it actually says coming soon for the Strava segments and points of interest, as well as the custom alerts. So that stuff's all going to come down the pipeline.
Jake: So it's going to be like little, like, Many Christmases with this device. If you decide that you want to pick it up where like, they're going to push out a firmware update, hopefully it's not going to be like big chunks of time in between, but like, Ooh, it's all of a sudden got this new feature on there.
Jake: That's great. That it should have had when it first came out, but this computer, [00:35:00] doesn't it
Ian: have like a wind sensor on it? So this
Lance: section right here in front actually, especially. Post it measures the wind speed coming into the front of the computer. So it's, and it should show you what your ground speed is compared to the wind speed.
Lance: So they don't have it set up real. Intuitively yet, but you can tell if your ground speed is going faster than the wind speed, that you are, you got a tailwind. And if it's the other way, you're pushing more watts. And you can see, you can see it change as you pull in and out of a draft or not. Yeah. So that's an interesting feature that they don't quite have all figured out yet.
Matt: Yeah. Comes with a nice aluminum, uh, upfront mount, which is basically the only way that you would want to use this. I think again, beefy, heavy,
Lance: it's aluminum, not plastic because this thing is heavy. And so they, they wanted to include something that would [00:36:00] work. It's
Jake: so big that a lot of the out front mounts that are native to bikes are that the, the, the, You know, the secondary market has made, it won't fit on there.
Jake: It's just too big. Um, you know, there are like certain, like your, for instance, your bike, your, your BMC team machine has this, it kind of looks like a popsicle stick, but you can loosen the bolts and it'll telescope in and out based on what size computer you have. I'm pretty sure if you push it all the way out, you're just going to fit.
Jake: If you want to put that on, it would fit just fine. Now, if you've got something that's a static one, that's a little bit closer and if just fits like a five 40 or a element bolt, no way, it's not going to work. It's not going to fit in there.
Matt: it gets to the point where it's like a lot of people have the arrow hand or handlebars too.
Matt: So, you know, having this, like that, the circular mount doesn't work on arrow handlebars might be, uh, might be an issue.
Jake: I'm sure that there's a lot of people rushing right now to develop something that they can bring to market first so that they can sell a bunch of them for all of these different issues, whether it be the I don't know, front mount that needs to tell us go a little bit further out or something that's going to be shaped to more of the popular [00:37:00] arrow bars.
Jake: Um, they've got to be getting on top of that.
Lance: I'm definitely very interested in this. Uh, like I said, I, this would be something I would really like to train with, um, just because you can see things better on the map. You there's a lot more real estate. It's heavier for sure, but man, I, they, they revamped their, the app too, that's associated with this.
Lance: Well,
Jake: it's not even the app that you use for your element anymore. That's going to be going away. They're just going to that one standard Wahoo app. The one that you use to set up like your kicker bike and the fan and all the, like the peripherals that you can connect to it. That's where everything's going to live now.
Jake: And they're going to probably just do away with that bolt app and bring everything over eventually. And it's supposed to have a little bit more depth, a little bit more connectivity, less apps on your phone. It's kind of nice as well. Just put it all in one place.
Lance: Anyway, I'm interested, but so you're going to take it for a ride.
Lance: It's I am, I think I'm going to, I'm going to use this for the next week or so. And, and do some, try some navigating stuff. Yes. I'm going to try some navigating stuff
Matt: because you [00:38:00] have the bolt. So
Lance: I have the, I have the tiny one, the very small bolt. So. To see how this compares should be interesting
Matt: for sure a lot of women say it's more like how you use How you use it not necessarily the size.
Matt: Okay, that's what I've heard.
Lance: It may
Matt: be small, but it's as
Lance: thick as a soup can
Matt: Yeah, and that thing is thick. It's it's not only it's not only the size of a cell phone, but it's It's wide and 3. 8
Jake: inches, baby.
Matt: It's, uh, yeah, you're, you're gonna, you're going to feel that one. So it's a solid piece of equipment
Jake: that was originally supposed to come out in late October.
Jake: I think that they've been obviously working on this for a bit of time. And the thought process was come out late October. Big splash right before the holidays. Uh oh, did we bite off more than we could chew? Oh, is there, there's way too much still to do. Uh, Oh, is this enough to put it out now just so we can sell a few of these for the holidays and maybe have all the firmware done by springtime?
Jake: Is that kind of what your guys thoughts are on this? Yeah,
Matt: that's, it's an odd, so December [00:39:00] 3rd, so all of these companies try and put stuff out in the fall so that you get the, you get the splash of a new product, people buy it. And then holiday shopping, people purchase it. And so like the prime time to put out tech, right?
Matt: Like they always call it like Tech Timber and Techtober, you know, it's all, it's just like the running joke that there's all this new tech in the fall. Um, so that's the time to put stuff out and you put it out December 3rd. Yeah, it's pretty late for the holiday side of things. And if you're North American side of stuff, like you're just, just less people doing outdoor stuff, like less people are going and doing the outdoor, this is not a lot of, this is not the time where people are buying cycling computers, at least on this side of the world.
Matt: So I think probably, You know, spring would have been a smart timeframe or even like early summer where it's like, Hey, everyone's outdoors. They're doing stuff. They want their new cycling computer. Wait, they could have waited and baked the software a little bit, fixed it up, finalized it, and then released it.
Jake: Do you think it's going to harm the, [00:40:00] I don't know, the clout of this computer? I mean, if it had come out fully, like fully ready and everything was optimized and done and, and, you know, It's good to go. Do you think that they would have sold more if they just wait until the spring versus like putting it out now with
Matt: being 80 percent done?
Matt: The reason I think so is because there's a lot of reviewers that post stuff and it's like, it's great, it's big, you know, whatever. But there's a lot of negative reviews of this thing. I would say at best. It's mixed reviews. And so if you're shopping, you're constantly seeing these reviews that have been out for a month or two, and they've got all these views.
Matt: So they float up to the top of the search algorithm and they're all kind of negative. Like. if you're buying something for 600, you're probably going to read reviews about it. And if they're negative, you're probably going to shy away from it. So,
Lance: but that's just a
Matt: firmware update to fix.
Lance: Yes. Correct.
Lance: That's going to be two months down the road, three months down the road, six months down the road. But the
Matt: question is then like, are people really going to double back and review this a second time [00:41:00] after three months? Some people will, but most of the, most of the press period is going to be over and they're going to be onto the next thing.
Matt: Yeah. So. You know, I think this kind of happened with the, um, Khoros Dura Cycling computer
Lance: also released unbaked not finished. Exactly. Yeah,
Matt: very unbaked and Missing a lot of stuff Very cool computer doing a lot of things very uniquely just like especially when it comes to battery life and stuff like that I'm impressed with this thing, but man, okay So that was six
Lance: months ago, right was released and I have not heard whether that firmware has been updated enough
Matt: Where it's more usable.
Matt: They've slowly been progressing but it's like They, they've had, they had such a bad launch with that computer. It was like, well, now if we, if you bought one, we got to send, we got to send you a new one because it's just like, there's like hardware issues and software issues. Um, but the things that it does [00:42:00] are really unique and really cool.
Matt: you know, I don't, I don't know if that ever will, if they'll ever overcome the bad early press. And I think probably it should be a lesson for anyone that's in product, you know, product launches. It's part of PR teams. It's like get stuff out that's fully baked so that you get that bump, that good PR bump.
Matt: And then, cause that stuff is the stuff that sits at the top of the search engines. And it's really hard to get other stuff above that after three, four months after it's been out there for awhile. Anyway,
Jake: Yeah, all that said, I think that what they could have done was actually done a big push or PR push on their behalf, as opposed to putting this in the hands of people and then throwing some specs up on the website and then launching and pushing out these, these computers, which by all intents and purposes, they're great.
Jake: But if they were to come out and say something, hey, Here's what we did, and this is why we did it. It's, it's not fully ready yet. And it's indicated on the website. It says coming soon. And here's why, and here's what you can anticipate. And this is what this thing has the capacity to do. Get people [00:43:00] excited about what it's going to be able to do when you think that's going to come out and just kind of build up a little bit of like, Hey, get on this now, because it's going to like, it's going to scratch a lot of itches for you.
Jake: And I don't know, maybe you'd be a part of like some. beta development or some feedback, or just giving people the ability to have a voice like, Hey, it's got the capacity to do so many great things. It can do just about anything. Let us know what you want it to do. And we'll start baking that in there.
Matt: Yeah. My guess is like, like you said, it was going to come out a lot earlier. And then when you start talking about doing a complete rewrite, you just realize, Oh yeah. And it's missing this and it's missing this and it's missing Strava segments. And it's missing that. It's like, Oh, this just takes developers so much time to do all these different things and make sure it doesn't break.
Matt: I don't know. Tough launch.
Jake: Would you buy one?
Matt: Um, I don't think so. I don't know. I mean, so the, the weight of it doesn't bother me. The size of it doesn't bother me that much. I do like computers that I don't have to do us, you know, use a special [00:44:00] attachment piece to put on the computer, to put on the bike or whatever, because I have one that's kind of built into the BMC.
Matt: So I prefer to use that one if I can using a separate one is a little bit annoying, but I could get over that. Um, I don't know what it brings to the table. The wind gauge thing, the battery life. Isn't that great? Like the, the wind gauge thing is this
Jake: screen looks pretty fantastic, but, um, like compared to the Rome,
Matt: like you're pretty happy with the room.
Matt: Like the Rome is one of my favorite computers. One of the reasons we like it is that it doesn't have a touch screen. You have these great buttons and they work and they're functional and you, you know, you don't have to deal with the, you know, rain changing your settings on the touch screen. Um, Wahoo makes some good computers.
Matt: I'm This one, I think the jury's still out.
Jake: True, I mean, Don't knock it till you've tried it. Right, that's true. We haven't tried it. That's what I'm gonna take and the other thing will be the proof's in the pudding, you know. Lance, when you're
Matt: After you've written it, I wouldn't mind borrowing it for like a No, [00:45:00] we'll pass it around the
Jake: table.
Jake: No.
Matt: Okay.
Jake: We'll see. Like, maybe Lance
Matt: will be so attached to it that he'll be like, over my dead body. You're gonna have to run me over and take this computer off of my bike.
Lance: This is, this is Jake's computer. It's not mine. So he can do whatever it, with it that he wants to. He just can't ride for a bit. So I'm going to test it out.
Lance: My proxies. My proxies. My proxies. You got a lot
Matt: of proxy riders here.
Jake: You know what? Here, use that little text feature. Did you buy one of these? Let us know. What do you think about it? And if you've read everything or you want to know anything about it, let us know. Ask us questions and we'll, we'll just kind of give you some slow updates on this.
Jake: I mean, I, I really do like Wahoo a lot. I think they're a fantastic company. They put out some great stuff. Um, I'm hoping that this thing's great. We'll see.
Lance: We'll see. I prefer Wahoo over Garmin. I have come to, uh, as far as bike computers go, but that, that's a completely personal choice. So that's why I'm very interested in this also think that's because
Matt: you've experienced the Bolt and the Roam, and they've been solid.
Matt: They have been solid. In [00:46:00] this. Yeah, we'll see. We don't know.
Jake: Hmm. Good times. Anything else on this guy? Nope. Yeah? Movin along. Hey. All Things FTP. I read somewhere across this really good blog post on the interwebs. It was called All Things FTP. Have you guys seen that? Have you guys heard about that?
Matt: Where can we find it?
Jake: It was on some
Matt: website.
Jake: Dialed Performance Coaching. Oh, Dialed Performance Coaching, that's you Ian. Yeah, that's me. You wrote a blog about all things FTP.
Ian: Yeah.
Jake: What's, what's that about?
Ian: It's about, basically it's about all things FTP.
Jake: FTP, is that forget this post? Yeah,
Ian: Functional Threshold Power.
Jake: Funky Taco Party?
Ian: Functional Threshold Power. Like I was saying earlier, it took me hours to write, months to get around to writing, and it's gone completely viral since it's been up. I think there's two or three likes now on Facebook.
Jake: [00:47:00] Foul tasting popcorn.
Ian: Yeah.
Jake: F this place.
Ian: Something like that.
Jake: Oh, so in all seriousness, um, Talk to us about this.
Jake: I mean, it's, it's that time of year. Everybody's kind of got that on their mind a little bit. Cause there's a lot of people that are starting to trans transition back into a training program there, you know, maybe they, they're on the trainer and they're, they're seeing all these, you know, power numbers and they're like thinking about the spring time.
Jake: And if you're going to put in the work, now's the time of the year that you do that. So then spring rolls around, you're, you're all that in a bag of chips.
Ian: It's relatively recent phenomena, right? That, that's. pretty much all cyclists now, if you're competitive or if you, if you're, um, strongly motivated to train, then you bought a power meter because they're reasonably priced now and everybody has one.
Ian: So, and this metric, this functional threshold power of FTP, I felt that it was little understood, much used, you know, it was, Uh, some people, it's kind of like the [00:48:00] cyclists, how much can you bench, you know, it's like a badge of honor or chest pounding
Jake: thing, a little shame,
Ian: but what does it mean exactly? And is it even relevant to you and your particular story?
Ian: cycling mode. Like if you're a road racer or a mountain biker,
Jake: well, here's the thing, recreational it kind of is. Cause I mean, we deal with a lot of people, a big cross section of people that will come into the lab that, you know, there's a big chunk of them that are the racer types because that's kind of the vein we run in, but there's also just as many people that are Just out recreational riding and like going on the, the fun little weekend rides with their friends, or maybe doing like a charity ride for something along those events.
Jake: It doesn't matter who you are. Everybody wants to be able to ride just a little bit better. Nobody wants to hold up a group. Everybody wants to be able to enjoy the ride. So whether you're trying to be at the pointy end of a bike race and trying to be [00:49:00] able to like, be as competitive as you possibly can, or just being able to go out and finish a two hour ride.
Jake: You want to be able to do that as best as you possibly can. You don't necessarily have to take a racer's mentality to that. But if you understand how you can use FTP to help you help, help you find more enjoyment in cycling, there's, it's, it's relevant to everybody. Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack what you're saying, but,
Ian: um, no, I agree.
Ian: And this is one of the points I make is, is it relevant to you? And it depends. Um, yes. In, for all the things you just mentioned in that it's a quantifiable objective measurement of your fitness level. Um, in at, at that sort of range of power, your endurance fitness level. So the sort of gold standard of, of saying whether you're a, uh, an athlete who's in great shape or, or you've got a way to develop is to look at your threshold power [00:50:00] versus your absolute maximum capacity to, um, To process oxygen.
Ian: So, so you, you VO two max and elite athletes can get within sort of 85 to 90 percent of that, of that absolute maximum oxygen uptake, the, uh, the VO two max and maintain that, you know, for, for 50 minutes, an hour or longer. And so your percentage of FTP as, uh, in relation to your VO two max is, is an important and measurable, um, marker to use.
Ian: However, if you have a strong FTP, will that make you faster in your particular race? And my argument is. Yes and no. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. For somebody like Matt, you know, people in the triathlon community where, where it's important to put out a steady, [00:51:00] long, um, effort, go as hard as you can for a prolonged period.
Ian: Absolutely. If your gig is time trialing, uh, you want to get faster at a 40 kilometer time trial. Absolutely. FTP, you will attempt to do that. Exactly. Your FTP for the entire duration of the race. Um, if you're a track racer, a mountain biker or a road racer or crit racer, all of those things have got much bigger, um, variability in intensity, variability.
Ian: And so, um, it's not everything. Okay. So, so just as important as your ability to go with the surges, right. To, to be able to put out that maximum effort for three, four, five minutes, uh, perhaps have a stronger sprint or have a bigger engine when it comes to just sitting there in the pack for two to three hours at a time.
Ian: So all of those [00:52:00] things, um, may be more important to the, Particular event you're towards.
Jake: Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of factors that go into what you just talked about. I mean, there's plenty of people that have a, an FTP that's far less than mine and their, their Watts per kilogram could actually be on par with me, but, you know, it just depends on a myriad of things.
Jake: Like, I mean, they could be more aerodynamic on the bike. They could have a little bit better race craft. They could have a better setup. Like, I mean, there's a lot of things that go into the play into this whole Equation that you're talking about, but on the whole, I mean, when you want to take a look at like what the biggest factor is, if your FTP is three 65 and my FTP is, I don't know, two 50, and we're going to go do a race together.
Jake: Even if it's in a group and we can use group dynamics, you're just, I'm still not going to be able to hang likely. And if you want to be the protagonist and you want to be aggressive and you want to get rid of me, it's a whole hell of a lot easier. If my FTP is, is down low as it is, [00:53:00] that's us being equal weight, equal by equal everything,
Ian: but you know, I look at my own experience with racing, um, road races and I, I didn't have a particularly high FTP.
Ian: Right. And we can talk about FTP being as an absolute value versus a relative value relative to your weight. So in other words, what's per kilogram. Again, that depends on the. Course on the terrain on the event itself. And, and I've still managed to be reasonably successful in races by sitting in, um, you know, uh, executing a smart race, being there at the end, being able to put out that four or five, 600 Watts for the final minute, the final lap of a crit, you know, before the sprint starts is all of those things.
Ian: I can do with a relatively low FTP now using it as a metric as a, as a way to measure your [00:54:00] fitness is, um, has, has relevance, right? Because as you bring up your FTP, if you're doing it in a methodical structured way, the good news is that you are most likely bringing up your, um, five Effort power and your four hour power, you know what you can do aerobically.
Ian: So I thought it was important to explain exactly, um, what FTP is and the physio, physiology that underlies it as well. And if people had more of an understanding of that, maybe they, they could make a judgment for themselves, whether it's something they need to pursue.
Jake: Yeah. So going back to the notion of like, everybody needs to use their FTP, no matter what.
Jake: They're doing, I mean, that was a little farfetched to say that, but to have a good solid understanding of it and understand how to test it, understand what it means, understand how to use that number to develop zones so that you know how to train so that you know how to [00:55:00] use a power meter. And so, you know, how to like manage your efforts and give yourself expectations of like how this is going to roll out.
Jake: And then just slowly layer things up over the course of time with a little bit of an overload principle. If you take all of that and put that together and you're not a racer type, that's going to be very fruitful for you. It's going to be very, um, it's going to be a lot of fun too. I mean, you get to dig into the metrics and you get to kind of nerd out on the sport that you love, but you can use that on so many different levels just to make yourself an all around better cyclist and.
Jake: And not ever have to pin on a number to go race.
Ian (2): Yeah.
Jake: You know, you're going to learn stuff and you could even cross that over into like, you know, the, the Watts that you're putting out and understanding how that meshes up with the nutrition that you're taking on the hydration that you're putting in so that you can last a little bit longer because you want to go do that, you know, reach the beach ride.
Jake: That's going to take you five hours, whatever. You want to go do STP over two days and you've got to do back to back centuries. Knowing how to manage all of that and understanding what your zones are, how you're using your power, how to fuel yourself, all of that stuff is going to pay big dividends. And you're not ever pinning on a number.
Jake: You're not [00:56:00] racing. You're not the Joe racer type. You don't care about KOMs and winning bike races. You just want to go out and enjoy the sport and having that information. It's going to serve you so well,
Ian: I would say that if you're a cyclist who is interested in making performance gains outside of competition, right?
Ian: So you're just a recreate, not just, but you are a recreational cyclist who wants to be able to measure how. fit they're getting, then, uh, with today's power meters, you, you can get a, it's a good metric. It's kind of the gold standard, how much power. So FTP, basically really quickly is how much, what is the maximum power you can sustain for one hour.
Ian: A
Jake: functional threshold power for an hour.
Ian: So. The functional part of it though means that it's an estimate. It's something you're obtaining through field testing rather than in a lab, right? So the, the actual physiological threshold is [00:57:00] related to FTP, but Most people can't don't get that tested in a lab.
Ian: So functionally you can say, well, this threshold actually happens right around one hour of riding at your maximum pace, although. There's, there's various ways to measure it, various protocols in use. Um, some are better than, than others. Um, it has been shown that somebody will get an FTP value from doing a test, whether it's a traditional 20 minute test or a, uh, a ramp type test where you incrementally, um, push up the, Resistance.
Jake: Sure.
Ian: You get this power number and you go, great. I've got an FTP of 250 watts. Can you actually do 250 watts for an entire hour? Probably not. Most people, they can actually maintain their FTP [00:58:00] for somewhere between 35 to 40 minutes.
Champ Song: Hmm.
Ian: And the reason is so well, we can talk about the underlying physiology, but.
Ian: It's still, it's not, FTP is not like a on off switch. It's not like you can ride all day at a certain pace and then above that threshold you just fall off a cliff you can't do anymore. Um, riding at 95% of your FTP is still very uncomfortable thing to do, right? Mm-hmm . You've got acid building up in your blood and that's the limiting factor.
Ian: You can't, you just can't deal with that level of un of discomfort. So. So yeah, it's not like a on and off switch. Um, okay. So
Jake: people are probably asking like, what's a good FTP and, and how, and once I know what my FTP is, how can I improve that? So let's speak to those two things real quick, based on what you've written in your little novella here.
Jake: What
Matt: [00:59:00] FTP, um, Like, if someone wants to be able to talk to us, you know, we don't, we don't talk to anyone unless their FTP is over 300, right? It's like a rule of thumb. Yeah, you don't give anybody
Lance: the time of day at this. No,
Matt: no.
Jake: That's a good question. Well, the pros are gonna be Well into the 400s, like probably 450 to 480.
Jake: Depends on their size,
Lance: right? Yeah. Depends
Jake: on
Lance: their size. Some of the bigger guys, like, like, Brendan Johnson, I mean, theirs is like 465 or something. Yeah. But smaller guys, like Vingago, Or, or Taddei, they may be 360, but they only weigh 130 pounds. I
Jake: think Taddei's is over
Lance: 400. It's probably 400, and he's under He was
Jake: talking about going on a 4 or 5 hour zone 2 ride at like 315.
Jake: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. That's crazy. That's just bonkers, but those are Non human reptilian people that, you know, do crazy things on bikes, you know, you're, you're pro Peloton and all those folks, um, your elite cat one, two peoples are [01:00:00] probably going to be in that, like, right around that 400 threshold. Yeah.
Jake: And like three, 50 to four, it just depends on their size to
Ian: be competitive as an amateur. And as it say, like a cat three, you really want to be, to be competitive. You, you don't want to be competitive. Try to get to around four Watts per kilo.
Jake: That was my next thing was going to be. It's like, you have to take that relationship.
Jake: That's always been my
Ian: goal to try and get to four Watts per kilo. So I've, I have done that. I'm not there now. I was there last season, um, mostly through losing a few pounds, right? Because that affects your, um, relative FTP just as much as gaining extra power. So. Um,
Jake: okay. I'm just crunching some numbers.
Jake: What, what, what's the best Watts per kilogram that you've ever sustained Mr. Hepler over there? Sustained. Or not sustained, but just say that once you determine what your FTP was, and then you mesh that over your, your weight and converted everything to, you know, Kilograms and whatnot [01:01:00]
Lance: in, in race situations where I'm fit, like in the last few years where I've done races that have been, you know, more than two or three hours and I've been fit and I have like performed well, I'm barely doing.
Lance: 4. 3 watts per kilogram. Okay. For like a 30 minute stretch. Gotcha. And that is, that is going balls out.
Jake: Would you say then that you were riding above your FTP?
Lance: Yes.
Jake: Okay. Yeah.
Lance: My, my, my FTP has been roughly 310. For this last year, but I weigh 180 pounds, so my watts per kilogram is not at 4.
Jake: Yeah, well it'll, it'll change by the start of the season, you'll start to bring the FTP up maybe just a skosh, and your body weight will come down just a skosh.
Lance: For a masters athlete to be Around four Watts per kilogram. You're going to be competitive.
Jake: Matt. I don't know if you remember what your weights were, what your FTP numbers were, but the Arizona time, your [01:02:00] Arizona triathlon that you did was probably, would you say that was the most fit that you've been traveling?
Jake: Yeah. Triathlon. So I
Matt: was right close to 300 like FTP and my weight was. Less than I am now significantly just 40 pounds 30 pounds. Anyway, but yeah, so I think it was Close to four or over. Okay
Jake: Yeah, and you're probably right on that four mark, too. So
Ian: I was, and I'm not now. So that's, that brings up another point.
Ian: So it's going to vary throughout the year. For sure. It's amazing how
Matt: much weight plays into a role.
Ian: And I would say in the peak of race season, when I'm at my leanest, I'm just pushing up against 4 watts per kilos. But again, you know, that depends on the time of year, your level of fitness, and also whether you're actually indoors on your trainer versus outdoors on the road.
Ian: So there's a numbers are better outdoors. Yes. A hundred percent. I have 10, [01:03:00] 15, 20 percent in some cases,
Lance: at least I have about a 30 watt difference between on the trainer. So this,
Ian: this bring, this is important though, because most people operate with a, uh, Inflated sense of their FTP, right? Whether, and that may have come about through doing a legitimate test, but out in the, out on the road.
Jake: This is a big thing that needs to be talked about. Go ahead and finish what you're going to say, because then we
Ian: in a, in a structured workouts, you build off of percentages of your FTP. We work out what your training zones are based on that. So. If, if your workout is to do a, uh, an hour long zone to ride and you've overrated, overestimated your FTP, you're actually working at tempo pace on that, on that training, right?
Ian: And you're, you're training a completely different physiological. Energy system. So you're missing the point. So
Jake: you're [01:04:00] missing out on those performance gains. Plus you're going to chew yourself and spit yourself out. You're going to get destroyed. You're, you're really going to feel that cause that will pile up over the course of time.
Ian: When you look at what the pro teams are doing now, most of them have gone to away from FTP and they're working with actual threshold numbers. So they test their, they test their guys. By taking blood samples and figuring out exactly what their, uh, lactate threshold is LT two, what is that value? And then base your training zones around there.
Ian: And then when they want to do another, like another threshold tests, they don't do it functionally. They go back to the lab. So they're always working. So their zone two training or their zone four training is spot on where it needs to be. They're actually targeting the, the energy system there. The meaning to target.
Jake: Yeah, and it's not readily available to the average Joe's. You can't get the lactate testing. When I say not readily available, I'm not talking about like you have to have prescription for this thing. It's just [01:05:00] not easy to get and it's not inexpensive. I remember
Matt: Evan, Evan does it with Josh Monda. They both use those, the strips, but he, they were, I remember them telling me that it was like two bucks per strip or something.
Matt: Like it was expensive. And then I don't remember how much the little machine cost, but that's kind of pretty petty. Yeah. Yeah. And so I don't think it's,
Ian: you've got to have a good setup. You have to have a good system, the best, the good protocol to go with it. Right,
Matt: exactly. And I think that they struggled with that.
Matt: I think they struggled with that protocol for at least a few weeks when they were starting off. But you see
Ian: those guys are perfect examples of, of, of somebody that needs to have it and accurate. Picture of their FTP because the racing they do as, as professional triathletes, it's all about being able to maintain that.
Ian: FTP power, right? That's, that's everything. Get on your time trial bike and stare at your power meter and try to sustain that.
Matt: Yep. You're trying to have as little variance in power. Like we used to think about it as [01:06:00] cheating with triathlon, whereas like if you knew your FTP and half the rest of the field that's out there doing the triathlon, don't even have power meters.
Matt: And you're like, Oh, I know I hit this number, I come off the bike and I'm going to feel decent for a run. And like, No one else did that. No one else was doing that back 10 years ago. It was like, you just were cheating because you just knew yourself so much better than the rest of the field. So it was very handy.
Ian: Those sometimes triathletes don't, don't do particularly well in, in, in. It's because they're not used to
Matt: that
Ian: variation and intensity that they used to doing a warmup and then operating at FTP and then cooling down and that, and that's it. Whereas, uh, uh, you know, you go to your average road race, it's the intensity is all over the map and you've got to be able to respond to that.
Ian: Yeah, and adapt on the fly.
Matt: I might have noticed that in my road racing career. Just being like, oh, now that I'm dropped, I'm good. I can just [01:07:00] sit on certain watts and just, yeah, finish this race out.
Lance: I mean, not even road racing, but like mountain biking you do, like in a mountain bike race, you will do a higher wattage depending on the terrain as well.
Lance: Okay. There's this, Quarter mile climb that I need to drill it on because I know I'm gonna get this rest over the top Where I'm gonna be just driving the bike and not
Matt: think about how many like really really short little efforts You have to do just to get the bike over a certain. Yeah, you know, whatever like obstacle Exactly.
Matt: Yeah. It's super interesting.
Ian: Mountain bike race is the most variable in terms of intensity. And that's why I started The BMX
Matt: I heard was like something insane. Like where they, they have like, cause those guys start up so fast. Yes. I heard the BMX has like crazy high, like short intensity.
Ian: Yes. Crazy high power demands.
Ian: But in a mountain, you think about a mountain bike race, the climbing is usually really hard, [01:08:00] steep, intense climbs. And then the descents are often. So technical that you're not pedaling at all. So you're going from. Max power to no power all the time. I'm
Lance: holding 600 watts for two minutes and then zero for the next, you know, 45 seconds.
Lance: To your point, that's
Jake: the reason why I started riding on the road. I've talked about this before on the podcast. I started riding road bikes so I could get faster on the mountain bike based off of some coaching that I had or some, you know, People that were telling me, this is what you got to do. I'm like, all right, I'm all in, I want to get faster.
Jake: And it was exactly because of that. You weren't doing the right kinds of training. You weren't breaking things up and it's not that you didn't want to. It's just like, it's, you can't do that on a mountain bike. And I mean, you could technically go out and ride your mountain bike on the road, but you know, it's kind of fun to go out and ride on the road on a road bike with other people on road bikes and structure it and have fun with it.
Jake: And that's why I fell in love with the road.
Ian: Yeah,
Jake: it's fun. I
Ian: think, I think my main message in all of this is if you don't have a particular high FTP at the moment, it is [01:09:00] definitely worthy, um, pursuit to try and push that number up, right? It does. It means that it's some way of quantifying if you're, if your training is being effective, if you can increase your FTP.
Ian: However, if your FTP is not that high. All is not lost. You can still be competitive, especially if you're in. events, if you, if your events are, you know, have a high variability of intensity. So yeah, I'm a perfect example. My FTP is not that great, but, um, I've done well in a few races, depending on the course, crafty old wanker, well, it's something to be said for sitting in the wheels and reading the moves and going with the right moves and being there at the end.
Ian: So that's the beautiful
Jake: part about it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, how much improvement can you say somebody can make over the course of an off season? And I know that that's going to be relative to like where they're [01:10:00] coming from, how long they've spent in the sport, how dedicated they want to be. I mean, you said it,
Ian: it depends.
Ian: It right. It depends where you're starting from for, for a newbie, somebody who's in their first year of taking this stuff seriously, you can make really good gains. You could make. I don't know, pull 20 percent down on my ass maybe.
Jake: Okay. That's good to know. Let's say that you've been riding a little bit.
Jake: You've never really done anything structured. You know, you can't give me a solid answer of how many hours you average per week. And, you know, but you go out and you ride your bike and whatnot, like over the course of an off season, how do you think that person's probably going to show the most benefits by jumping on a structure program, getting a baseline FTP, jump on a structure program, and then like ride through the whole winter.
Jake: The advice of a coach kind of like mentoring them and making sure that they're making all the right steps. I mean, that, is that your best, most optimized situation? Yeah. Do you need a coach to do this? No,
Ian: you don't. I mean, if you can afford a coach, it sort of takes the guesswork out of it. But [01:11:00] then if you're an informed, Cyclists and you educate yourself.
Ian: There's no reason why you can't put together your own structured training, whether you have the motivation to follow that without being accountable to somebody, that's a different matter. That's the
Lance: hardest thing with doing your own program.
Ian: Most cyclists will go out and do a bunch of training. and wonder why they're not objectively making improvements.
Ian: You know, they take an FTP test, they go out and ride their bike 10 hours a week or winter long, take another FTP test, and it's barely budged. Why is that? Because you've not. You've been wasting your training time doing junk miles. Most likely
Jake: that's very likely. Um, there's another thing with FTP testing and that it's, it's hard to replicate.
Jake: You actually have to learn how to do it the right way and you have to be willing to suffer. And I feel like a lot of people just don't want to suffer like that. Like they might be willing to put in some of the work on the training side of [01:12:00] things, but when it comes down to like, you have to pour yourself into it.
Jake: 100 percent into this test. You have to give it everything that you have and you cannot give up until it's over. So we can get that true baseline number on you. Yeah. There's a lot of people that might do that for you once. They don't want to do it again. Cause it kind of sucks. It hurts. I mean, the only way that I can see that it's kind of fun is if you can find a segment that you can, like, you can chase and you have that rabbit out there and you know, that you have to go hard.
Jake: And if you go hard, that you have like a little bit of a carrot at the end, like you got like in the top 10 or you got a KOM that to me is, you know, it's. Better to chase than seeing what my FTP is at the very end. So, yeah.
Ian: And I don't really like setting FTPs for, for my FTP tests for my guys, because it is discouraging.
Ian: Um, a lot of times it's not accurate. Um, and like you said, it, it, it's a sufferfest. It's hard to replicate. It's hard to replicate. And what I prefer to do, if, if people have good data, like if they did a long race. Say they did a road race. Yep. Um, and then [01:13:00] I'll, I'll look at their 20 minute power. Yep. Over that, over that hardest effort they can do and go extrapolate that to look.
Ian: You ever look at the power curve? Yeah. The power curve. Power
Matt: curve's such a fantastic, absolutely. Especially, absolutely. Especially if you can look at a power curve over like a historical. block of writing, like year, two years of writing, you can be like, Oh,
Ian: as long as you have some representative, right?
Ian: That's true. That's a good point. Yeah.
Matt: Like this summer you're in really good shape or wherever it is for me. It's always like summertime when you get in better shape, it's like, Oh, now you look at the power curve over the past, whatever, a couple of weeks. And it's like, Oh, that looks pretty good.
Jake: So what are your thoughts on a lot of these new platforms?
Jake: I think training peaks does it, I think. Trainer road might do it as well, but they're just taking the information that you're plugging into it based on your workouts and your rides and even your races to determine what your FTP is so that you don't actually have to go out there and do a test. What do you, what are your thoughts on that?
Ian: Yeah. I mean, like we just been saying, yeah, FTP tests suck. Is it close
Jake: enough? Is it valid?
Ian: It depends how recent the data is as well, because like we said before, [01:14:00] you're
Matt: crappy data in crappy data out where it's like,
Ian: Okay. So your FTP is going to vary throughout the year. So if, if you'd, if you had a representative block of training that included a long effort, like a big time trial or something within the last couple of weeks, within a close enough timeframe, then that's a number you can definitely work
Champ Song: with.
Ian: Um, if it, if the data was from last summer at the height of the season, yeah, it has to be within a
Jake: certain amount of time for sure. I mean, I can't, I can't. Tell you that my FTP is what it was, you know, two years ago during the summertime when I was feeling good and doing the flogging ride for an hour and 15 minutes and finishing with 370 watt average.
Jake: I mean, I, that's just not me right now. I'd be lucky if I was 170 watts, but
Matt: Apple watch can estimate your FTP from bike riding. Really? Yeah. It's not good, but they'll get there. Right. Where, I mean, but they're basically the same thing we're talking about. They're looking at the power curve of a car. given couple of rides and I think that they require like three or [01:15:00] four rides at a decent effort and they're going to try and estimate your FTP.
Matt: Sure. So bad data in bad data out, but they're using that kind of power curve to kind of figure out what they think you could do for an hour. It's, it can be good. I think some companies are probably doing a better job than others. Um, I don't currently trust Apple that much, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Matt: Does Garmin do anything like that? I can't remember.
Jake: I think that they'll give you an estimated FTP if I'm not mistaken. But
Ian: I think the data you get in that fashion is almost worthless. Like you, if you see a positive trend, then I guess it's worth something, but using it. To set your training zones and structure your workouts.
Ian: I don't think it's, it's, you
Lance: know, if you said your FTP too high and you go to do a workout and you're like, that's the worst, skip,
Matt: skip, decrease, decrease, or, or when you, when you do a great effort and you do set your FTP correctly and you're like the next workout back, you're like, Oh no, all of the workouts are hard now.
Matt: Yeah. They're so
Jake: hard. When was the [01:16:00] last time you guys actually did an FTP test? Can you even remember?
Lance: I did one three weeks ago. Did you really? Yeah, outside. Which
Matt: is not real accurate. It's accurate in a different way. I feel like the trainer stuff is It's always like, like you said, 30 watts. But yeah,
Lance: I did one outside um, on the Washougal Dike starting from like Starting from almost my house, because it's only a 20 minute segment, and I just tried to go I tried to hold 320 for 20 minutes.
Lance: I was not able to do that because there's stop signs and I hit I, there were two things that, like, held me up and it, like, skewed the number. I think it's very
Matt: interesting, like, one of the conversations I've had with, um, other cyclists is, like, where can you go in your local area for a 20 minute test? Yeah, large mountain.
Matt: Like, large mountain. I mean, a
Ian: better test would be to, you know, Would be to do an actual time trial or to go for [01:17:00] a longer, um, Strava segment. Like, and that way you've got the motivation to push yourself and then go back and look at the data and say, Oh, how much power did I manage to maintain for 20 minutes times that by 0.
Ian: 95, right? Take 5 percent off should give you a reasonable estimate. It's still a game.
Matt: I think that depends on where you're listening to this podcast from, but like finding a 20 minute effort where there's no. Stop signs. There's no traffic. There's no turns because you're going to ease up on something.
Matt: There's no,
Lance: there's no sustained downhills. Yep. Because you, it's hard to keep, you could have a steady line. I feel like that's
Matt: the most ideal situation, but it's hard to find those. Mount limit for sure. Yes. Perfect. Yeah. So next time you're there. I mean, I guess the most accurate test is
Ian: to write as hard as you can for one hour, but like nobody wants to do that.
Ian: No. That would suck.
Jake: No, not at all. So yeah, Vancouver Lake and uh, Gibson, those are the two places that I've done them since I've lived here. Oh, Gibson Hill. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's a good test. [01:18:00] That's about a 20 minute talk, man. It's hard to
Matt: go hard, like, on the flats like that. I feel like it's hard to dig in.
Matt: On, uh, Lachmas Lake? Or not Lachmas Lake. Vancouver
Jake: Lake. Vancouver Lake. I, I don't know. I, I, I think it's good. You run out of real estate there. You have to do one turnaround. You have, there's no way around it. But you have to turn around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you start. Like closer to the railroad tracks, closer to town.
Jake: And then you go all the way out to the very end and turn around. Yes, you have that three second or four second turnaround, but you can like kind of sprint into it, break hard and then turn around and sprint out of it. And that's not ideal, but it's, it's pretty good. If you want to try and keep it flat.
Lance: It gives us not bad either, but there's a There's a flat downhill section where it's like, you can't help but like rest when you hit it.
Jake: You just have to do, you have to do what you gotta do. There's a couple like short downhill sections and you just have to like look at your power meter and you have to push and you have to pedal through. You have to like, right, these are the watts that I think I've been averaging. I have to keep averaging that on the downhill.
Jake: There's two
Lance: sections on that climb where I can't do them [01:19:00] under 400 watts. I'm just too big. Going up Gibson? You gotta dig. Just to keep upright. I have to push over 400 watts. And then I'm like skewing the data. But
Matt: anyway. Are we okay on time? I'm running, um, gotta go up to the high school cross country practice.
Matt: Gotcha.
Jake: Anything else you want to talk about on the FTP side of things? I just wanted to
Ian: touch on, I think it's important, the best ways to increase your FTP.
Ian (2): Yeah.
Ian: So there is
Ian (2): drugs.
Ian: Yeah. There's some, there's some good interval interval types. Uh, there's, there's some very specific interval training that works really well.
Ian: I did want to mention a couple of scenarios. Um, one is If a guy came to me and they had a, say an FTP of 250, but they were relative beginner cyclist and they haven't, haven't [01:20:00] been training that long. It may well be that they're, um. Their actual aerobic, their capacity, their VO two max is they haven't reached their genetic ceiling, right?
Ian: They haven't pushed their VO two max up to as hard as it can go because they've spent a lot of time just riding their bikes and never really focused on that super intense. Efforts. You need to push up the very high end of your power. So you may have an FTP in that case. That's 90 percent of your max power.
Ian: So, but you're still not that fit. See what I'm saying? In that case, for those athletes, there's a real benefit in doing super high intensity via two max type workouts to bump up the ceiling, which drags your threshold power with it. And then on the other end of the scale, you have, uh, people who, who don't have that very much, uh, endurance.
Ian: Okay. So zone [01:21:00] two, they can maintain that kind of 200 Watts or that, that kind of conversational pace for, you know, 30 minutes instead of two hours, three hours. And that means their aerobic systems are underdeveloped. They're not, They're not very efficient at, um, producing energy aerobically, um, through their
Jake: mitochondria.
Ian: In that case, more, um, training in that zone, zone two can in fact push the whole curve to the right so that, so that you, you going into your FTP, into your more intense zones with less lactate and its byproducts, so less, less acidity. in your blood to begin with. And so having a good aerobic base, having a, uh, a, um, a well developed, um, system of, you know, um, converting oxygen into energy that, that [01:22:00] helps
Jake: If I can just make a comment on that real quick, too, if, if you are relatively new or you're returning, or it's been a while, or you've never found your genetic potential and you're, you're being challenged, don't go into this with the mindset of like, you need instant gratification, or you need to increase your FTP by 30 percent over the next three or four months, that's just not sustainable.
Jake: You are going to break down and you're not going to, you're going to end up losing the, the enjoyment and the passion and the love for the sport. Be on a structured program, but find, find fun in it as well. You need to have some fun in there. Make sure it's structured, make sure you're doing it right. And just know that this is a sport that you get to layer up over the course of time.
Jake: It's not a one off season and all of a sudden you're going to be a beast on the bike. I mean, That that's going to happen and you very well could. But what I want to see is you to be here for a long time, you know, cause I've seen people take five, six, seven, eight years, 10 years to kind of find some of their potential limits.
Jake: You know, some of us are kind of getting up there in age a little bit and maybe we don't [01:23:00] have five to 10 years, but then at the day, just enjoy the ride, take a reasonable approach to it. You know, just it's, it's, there's no quick return in the sport really.
Ian: No, absolutely. I agree with you a hundred percent.
Ian: I will, I will say though, that. At some point, you'll figure out that you need to take it to the next level. You've had years and years of, of having fun on the bikes and going out and beating yourself up and your, and your friends up, you know, and, uh, at some point you think, I mean, they're going to get out of this completely and find a different sport, or I'm going to.
Ian: Take it up a notch,
Jake: right? Yep, learning how to suffer on the bike. That's a, that's a learned skill. I mean, you get to a stage if you do it right and you don't abuse that process going into it where you get totally burned out. You get to a stage, and I'm sure Lance can speak to this, you kind of are a little bit of a masochist.
Jake: You go out there and you punish yourself on purpose and people look at you like, what Why did you just do that? Why did you just go ride for four or five hours and do all these intervals and race people and do all this crazy stuff? And you can [01:24:00] barely move and you're just sitting over there with a smile on your face.
Jake: Like I'm dead right now, but I can't wait to do that again.
Lance: That's my wife every day.
Jake: You'll, you might very well find that, but don't, that can't be your mantra all the time. I mean, that's. No.
Ian: And, and, and it doesn't, it doesn't always work. It beating yourself up on your bike every single day thinking that, Oh, I'm the more I do, the better I'm going to get.
Ian: That's definitely not the way to go. You know, we know that the adaptations to your training happens when you stop training, when you rest. Yeah. That's so, you know, you've got to be smart about this, right? You've got to, you've got to not waste it. If it's, if. Raising your FTP or being competitive is what you've decided you want to do right now.
Ian: You have to stop wasting your time on the bike and make every mile you cycle count for something. What is the goal of this training ride? Sure. What am I, what am I training right now?
Jake: Sure. Um, just a couple of little tips or little words of wisdom here. It's that time of year where [01:25:00] you're doing a lot of your training on the inside.
Jake: We already talked about this. Please, please, please don't forget that you need to adjust your power numbers for writing indoors. Cause you're going to be in the wrong zones. You're going to fall apart. Your body's going to hurt. You're going to get burned out. You're going to hate the sport. You're not going to want to ride on your trainer and the wheels are going to fall.
Jake: It happens. It happens to the best of us. So make sure you adjust accordingly, find time in your schedule to try and ride your bike outside. And if you can ride with others that have a same goal or same common purpose in mind so that you can have that whole misery loves company. If it's crappy weather out, or you guys can stick to the plan and, you know, keep Lance, uh, tempered.
Jake: So he's not trying to chase every tennis ball running down the street here.
Lance: But KOMs
Jake: guys, and just, um, You know, if you've got the capacity, work with a coach, if you don't have the capacity to work with a coach, be well educated, go out there, there is a ton of information. You can jump on Ian's little blog post right here, dialperformancecoaching.
Jake: com all things FTP, go read this up, educate yourself, follow some sort of a training [01:26:00] structure program, and don't become like kind of passion blind. Don't become like so narrow focused and start making excuses for yourselves or not see the bigger picture. You know, let somebody objectively help you. If you can't afford a coach, like find a friend and explain to them what they're trying to do, and hopefully they're, you know, like.
Jake: On the bike like if I'm trying to come back and I've got all these like crazy ideas of what I want to do and I'm gonna go do this and I'd lean on Lance a little bit. He's like, hey, you need to temper this a little bit or maybe do that or it might be a day where I'm like, I'm just like, whatever. I'm just whatever I'm burnt like Lance will come over and he'll beat on my door.
Jake: He's like, we're going for a ride jackal. He's done that a bunch of times and I'm like always thankful that that's happened. So. Find these connections, remember these things, educate yourself. And this can be a much more enjoyable process. And then if you do have a coach, make sure that you're in constant communication with them.
Jake: They are the person that's going to be the one flying at 50, 000 feet, looking at the big picture, looking at what you're doing, understanding all of the steps of why you're doing, and hopefully they're, um, they're tuned into like you as a person, cause we're all, you know, we're all different people. I mean, we [01:27:00] all train differently.
Jake: We all have different, you know. Like physiological capacities. We're all different in the coach is usually someone that's got a ton of experience that can draw upon different personal experiences or different experiences, working with other clients or different friends and racing, all these things, they got this global view.
Jake: They should be able to look at you and say, this is what you need to do. So, find yourself a good coach.
Ian: Thanks, mate. Sorry. A lot of, a lot of my guys right now are doing these, uh, at least once a week, they're doing these lactate shuttle type intervals, which, which they hate. Is that why you can hear this, F.
Ian: Ian Gibson. Yeah. Jack Hall. Ask Mario. Lactate shuttle intervals, but very effective. Yeah. I would say very effective, so.
Jake: How often do you communicate with your, your clients?
Ian: Um, as often as they, they need. They can call me anytime.
Jake: Okay. Um,
Ian: usually. I have to remind them, Hey, it's part of your,
Jake: it's
Ian: part of the program.
Ian: Do you put the onus
Jake: on them or do you call them yourself and touch base with them? Like, Hey, or do you, are you, I'm guessing you're monitoring their workouts. If [01:28:00] you see something that's like a little askew, like that, that's not right. Let's fix that. Or that was great. Let me like give them a little pat on the back for that.
Jake: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Ian: That's, that's the way it works all the time is, is feedback in both directions. Cool.
Jake: All right. Sorry. I rambled on there. Um, I think that's enough cause we're getting a little long here and Matt's got to go to cross country things, Matt. One last thing, I think you did a
Matt: MazeFit video?
Matt: MazeFit T Rex 3. Yes, I posted that video yesterday. I watched it! Did you? Yeah. I was like, you're I'm surprised. You're the one. You're the one.
Jake: I was like over, I was like almost just under 4, 000.
Matt: I think it was like your
Jake: 128th, uh, kudos or something like that. So I don't usually watch the Amazfit videos. I'm like, I kind of want to watch this for some reason.
Jake: So I
Matt: remember I was talking about that one and it's like, it's got a lot of good stuff going for it. The price is ridiculously low, so
Jake: I'm still amazed by that. It doesn't have a flashlight, but the price, there you go. It's
Matt: in their name. They have to amaze you. Uh, yeah, it's a interesting watch. If you're interested, check it out.
Matt: The video is up on my YouTube channel. YouTube channel is [01:29:00] youtube. com slash M LeGrand. I think something like that. Or you just search for Matt LeGrand and you're going to find two people you might want to follow that way. So
Jake: have you ever heard from, have you ever reached out to him?
Matt: No.
Jake: Come on, dude.
Jake: Have him like write you like an intro song or something like that, or some like theme music for the channel. If we could do that. Dude, that would be fantastic. I mean, you're crushing him in the follower department. Um,
Matt: you know what? On Spotify, there's, he has a ton of followers. I didn't
Jake: even think about the Spotify.
Matt: So you make a playlist. I might have to
Jake: do that. Bumper, bumper music. Yes. That's it. Cool. Thank you, sir. Ian, you got one last thing for us?
Ian: Uh, yeah, if you are on dial cycling team, or if you ride in the Portland, Vancouver area, um, you are heartily welcome to join us on, uh, our new Saturday winter Training rides.
Ian: So we're gonna I saw
Jake: these now. So pissed I can't Go to these. I love that route. Well,
Ian: it's gonna go through [01:30:00] Definitely through the end of january at least so we're looking at two months block The idea is so that everybody can get in some basic base miles So it's good. It's like 64 mile course and we're gonna ride it at zone two.
Ian: So it's not the usual good luck with that dialed thrash fest um, we're gonna do it, uh You Not absolutely, or where the conditions like. If it's super extreme, raining sideways or snowing or icy, we're not going to do it, but otherwise we'll, uh, we'll meet up. It's, uh, 10 o'clock at, uh, Heritage
Lance: Park. Should roughly be three and a half, four hours, right?
Lance: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ian: And if, and you can drop out early if, uh, the, Bases to I, but if you're off the front and sprinting for stop signs, don't expect everybody to follow us. Although it is tempting, I know that, but, um, it's going to be a zone to pace. Good. Yeah. Uh, 10 o'clock, uh, heritage park at Lachemas [01:31:00] Lake, Saturdays through end of February, jump on down cycling's,
Jake: um, Strava.
Jake: Yeah. If you want to get the invite or the details on that. Yeah. Cool. Hepler.
Lance: I, I got nothing.
Jake: Freaking Hepler.
Lance: Nothing. Nothing? I don't know. Uh uh. The cyclocross race is happening. We're going to California next week. Yeah, Ian and I are going to California next week for a few days just to ride in the sunshine hopefully.
Lance: So. Freaking retired jackals. Let's see how
Jake: that goes. That's it. Cool. Um, my one last thing is, and I told you guys this right before we started the podcast. I feel pretty good. I feel pretty good that, um, the surgery that went really well and I'm just kind of like mending from that. But
Ian (2): I got
Jake: a little Message and that was the part that was like the last looming thing and my report came back that I don't have cancer That's pretty cool.
Jake: Ray. Yay So anyway again more on that in the future, but I am thankful for that I'm thankful for you guys thankful this podcast and all of our listeners [01:32:00] on that note you guys have anything else to say Didn't think so. That's it. We will be back next week with another one of these and until then bye for now
