Dialed Podcast 355 - The use of AI in Cycling | Crits | Campagnolo's Future

We respond to some great listener questions on how AI is being infused into cycling, how to get comfortable racing crits, what Campagnolo's future looks like, and much more.  Enjoy the podcast!

Fit, Healthy & Happy Podcast
Welcome to the Fit, Healthy and Happy Podcast hosted by Josh and Kyle from Colossus...

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Chapters

• 1:04 Intro
• 2:00 Backpedal
• 17:52 [Ad] Fit, Healthy & Happy Podcast
• 18:39 (Cont.) Backpedal
• 34:31 Leadout News
• 38:28 The EPO Chainmail
• 40:48 Crits
• 47:50 Campagnolo's Future
• 55:22 Supplements we use and why
• 1:04:44 The use of AI in Cycling
• 1:27:30 One Last Thing...

Transcript

Jake: [00:00:00] Hi, and welcome back to the Dialed podcast. I'm Jake von Duering and I'm here with Lance frigging Heppler. 

Lance: Lance rigging Heppler. Hello boys. What's up friggingness. How's it going? How's it going? 

Jake: And to his right, everybody's favorite, Matt LeGrand. 

Matt: Top, top four or top five-ish on the podcast. I don't know about favorite.

Matt: Top three today, but in the mix, top three today. What's up ladies and gentlemen of the internet? You guys look fan freaking tastic. Sweet!

Lance: He's gone. He's gone. Let's check Ian's location at the exact, at the current moment. Ian is, no, is is not coming up fast enough, he is in Leicester, England. 

Jake: Leicester, England. Do you think when he goes home everybody gives him crap about not sounding English enough now? But then he comes here and he gets a lot of crap from being, I don't know.

Jake: I don't know, he's at, 

Lance: he's at his childhood home with his mom. His mom is this sweet, sweet lady, so. If she's anything like you, she gives him 

Jake: crap. He needs a little bit of that from time to time. Let's do some [00:01:00] backpedaling. Matt, would you like to go first today or do you want to pick on Lance? What, 

Matt: what, what day is it today?

Matt: The 20th? It's the 20th. I'm 19 days and I'll bike today onto our Tiled 100 challenge. Well done. I think I'm 

Lance: only Nineteen days in a row. 

Jake: Yeah. Are you still going to 

Matt: lunch? 

Lance: Well, yesterday I only did 35 minutes. So, so legally, no. No. I'm out as of yesterday. Did 

Matt: you, did you like ride around and like, with your dog or anything?

Matt: Any weird other bike riding that you can add to what you're 

Lance: I drove for 13 hours. 

Jake: That kind of counts. It really surprises me that you didn't stop and go run around some gravel roads. 

Lance: I stopped and rode for 35 minutes and I'm like, no, I'm done. That's it. Were you by yourself on the trip? I was by myself.

Lance: No Piper? No Piper. No dog. No wife. It was lonely. Lonely. Now back to 

Jake: your regularly scheduled program at Legrand. 

Matt: Backpedal. That's, that's pretty much it. I mean, I've swam a couple of times [00:02:00] and I've. Run a couple of times, swim, like swim meets. It's still so much easier to go out for a run. It's been, there's been a couple of nights where you come back late and I have to like bike from not super late, you know, eight 30 to nine 30 or something like that, where it's like, you know, it's like, Oh, I don't really want to do this, but I'm not going to stop.

Jake: Technically the rules state that as long as you start in that day, like if you start at like 11 59, yeah, that counts as long as you do your hour. 

Matt: So that's the, I mean, I don't have to worry about that because I'm an old man now, but like I had similar rules when I had like my running for like, I don't know, a year, two years in a row where I didn't skip a day.

Matt: And I would be like, if I start by, and I'd go for a run at midnight sometimes in like weird places too. Like I'd be in Europe and I'd be like running at midnight, random places. Anyway. Um, yeah, that's enough for my backpedal. Nothing crazy. We've actually had some decent weather for cycling recently. The sun's out, sun's out, guns out.

Matt: Chilly, 

Jake: but it's sunny. 

Matt: I got my new gloves. Yes. Find them out on the roads on Saturday. How'd they work? They kept my hands warm. I should have [00:03:00] had like warm enough. They were perfect. They were perfect. I, the one thing I probably wish I'd put on where some like little shoe covers. It was, it was fine for most of the ride.

Matt: It was like by the end of the ride, I was like, Oh yeah, I'm not using 

Jake: mine right now. So you're welcome to borrow them. I've got, I've got shoe covers for every single temperature and weather variations. I don't 

Matt: think I need anything crazy. And I probably have three pairs. And so if it's really gross out, I'm not going out, I'll just ride indoors.

Matt: But like. When it's sunny out, you kind of want to get out there and do something if, if you have time. Yeah. This, 

Jake: when 

Matt: it's nice out 

Jake: like this, but it's really cold, like a good set of gloves, some shoe covers. And then if you get the bibs with the, like the Gore Tex wind protection in them, those things are magical.

Jake: Cause like normally you feel that when that cold air permeate through the bibs and it's cold, you do get used to it. But if you've got those, the wind cover, the wind shield in there. It makes all the difference in the world. You feel nothing and 

Matt: I'm just like going and climbing around, which is just like if you're just climbing time.

Matt: Yeah, you're just killing time climbing. You don't want to get overheated. So you're gonna be fine. 

Matt (2): Yeah, I mean, 

Matt: it's [00:04:00] just funsy. Get my hour and move along. Fantastic. Cool. Good times. Anything else? Um, 

Lance: that's good. Bob's your uncle. 

Matt: All right. Moving on. Ebler. Bob's Robert's 

Lance: brother. Yes. What? Yes, I am. What have you been up to?

Lance: I went to, where have you been? I went to Tucson. Where in, where? I went to, I went to Phoenix and to Tucson. Um, I've, I've had a just. Magical last 10 days. It was just fantastic. Um, everything, are you cutting my mic out on me? It probably should. 

Jake: Nope. 

Lance: Cut him. Cut him. Done. He's done with his back pedal. He had a magical 10 days.

Lance: Done. Done. Uh, I rushed out and, uh, drove, uh, all the way to Phoenix. I stopped and saw a buddy in Vegas. Uh, I made it to Phoenix in time, and I did my first mountain bike race. So, the, uh, the McDowell Meltdown. It was the first in their, like, eight race series or something. And it was in, uh, the McDowell Mountain Regional Park, which is near Fountain Hills, [00:05:00] which is, uh, right outside of Phoenix.

Lance: And, uh, I signed up and did that race, and I had a freakin riot. There were 25 people in my field, in the men's 50 59. I did race the intermediate race, I didn't race the expert field. Um, mostly because the expert field went off at 8am, and it was like 30 degrees at 8am. And the intermediate Race when it almost 11 and it was like 55 degrees.

Lance: So Anyway, I did that race Yes, I did manage to pull into the lead with like within the first mile and I ended up winning it So that was fun. So dodgy wankers. Yeah, 

Jake: that's what they were all saying about Lance 

Lance: Where it was it was? Single track passing practice for me. 

Matt: Yeah. I saw that, um, before we go too far, people need to go to your website and subscribe, not website, your YouTube channel, YouTube, [00:06:00] YouTube, go, go to youtube.

Matt: com search for Lance Hapler and. Subscribe, you will not be disappointed. I've 

Lance: been doing daily videos, 

Jake: and I've kept have a custom name for your channel yet? I don't. 

Matt: After a hundred subscribers, you can have your own custom name to your channel, like to 

Jake: the URL. YouTube. com slash Lance Epler or something along those lines.

Jake: Oh, I don't know anything about 

Lance: it. We'll help you with that. I'm just making videos and putting them up there, so. Mm hmm. Uh, yeah, it's been fun. I've been making videos every day, um, on all my rides, uh, trying to tell a little story with each ride. And what's 

Matt: interesting is, like, for this race that you did, like, you can see that, and you can see, what's nice is, like, you can actually see the type of trail that you were on.

Matt: Yeah. Which looked Sketchy in some parts and pretty good 

Lance: in a lot of other parts. Not too technical, but a couple of sketchy parts. And, and I caught a lot of video while racing. I wore my GoPro on my chest. And so I caught some stuff. What 

Matt: cycling computer did you use in the race? I 

Lance: used my Wahoo Element.

Matt: Bolt you went for the bolt because it's a [00:07:00] race. It's like tighten things up 

Lance: the ace the big one the big brand new one Yeah, won't really work on mountain bike. It's got too big I I guess you could use their included mount and put it on your round bar, but it I, I just, what? Could you put it out on the stem though, for your mountain bike?

Lance: Like, yeah. I don't know. There's not a mount for it to go on the stem. I mean, I have one, but the one I have, that thing would snap right off. It's just too plasticy. Yeah, it's too plastic of the mount plasticy. Yeah. The mount 

Matt: is 

Lance: plasticy. 

Matt: Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. And, and for a race, you probably wanna have the bolt anyway.

Matt: Yeah, I 

Lance: just wanted the bolt. 

Matt: Okay, 

Lance: because I'm bringing extra weight with the camera because I'm taking a camera on every ride and every race I'm doing now 

Matt: so which is kind of fun But it'd be nice if they made mounts where you could like and maybe they do now because new GoPros I think have some sort of magnetic thing But I'd love to be able to be like snap this to my chest snap it to my mouth Things snap to the top of my helmet just like different and maybe even [00:08:00] snap it to your bike for different like You know, cuts and different footage.

Matt: So one thing that I like work worked on is if you're filming something, you know, lots of fast cuts in different angles, right? So it's like, Oh, but how do you do that when you're actually racing or something? You can't don't, you don't focus on the race. Yeah, unless you use a different, a different 

Lance: camera.

Lance: If you use the dude. Three cameras or something or if you use the insta 360 you could take different shots with the insta 360 But I'm trying to I'm trying to cut these videos quickly. Yep, and I'm not I'm not gonna download I'm using a cell 

Matt: phone So the insta 360 thing is one of those things where it's like, oh, this is a there's a big extra step here And that was even hard for my workflow, which is already Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. 

Lance: Okay. Okay. Other than the race. Did the race. Did the race. Uh, stuck around Phoenix for a couple days. Uh, hung out with my sister who lives in Mesa. Um, did some other bigger rides there, which was great. Rode out to Tortilla Flat [00:09:00] and up some roads and did some gravel racing. And then I hopped in my van and headed down to Tucson.

Lance: And I What was that about? 

Matt: Just wanted to go do the shootout stuff? Or was it just because you wanted to, 

Lance: I just wanted to ride in the sunshine when it was warmer. And Tucson is 

Matt: sometimes warmer, but it's not always warmer. No, 

Lance: it was it was about 60 degrees every day, but it was just as cold in the morning.

Lance: It was still like 35, 38 degrees in the morning and and like 55 or 60 degrees in the afternoon because 

Matt: you're at a little bit altitude, 2000 feet, maybe. 

Lance: Yeah, 2500 feet. But the difference between Tucson is there are There's a group ride every day if you know the right people and you know what groups to get connected with.

Lance: And, and they're probably, there's probably that in Phoenix as well, but I don't know any of those people. 

Matt: You're not cool. 

Lance: No. In Tucson, um, I have a friend, Gary Allen, and he knows everybody. How long it drives from Phoenix to Tucson? Two hours. Two hours. Oh, okay. I was thinking 

Matt: it was like [00:10:00] four. 

Lance: No, maybe an hour and 40 minutes.

Lance: Okay. It's not even, it's not, Not bad. It's not bad. And so I went down and Gary, Gary. He's hung up right now because he, uh, I took him on a mountain bike ride in October and, and he crashed out and Torey's So it's your fault. It's kind of my fault. So Threw that stick in the spokes and he went over. So he just had surgery and he's in rehab so he's not riding right now except on the trainer.

Lance: So he just sent me with, you know, the different groups. I rode with the Dogs of Tucson, which is one like older group and Then another group called the Tucson Masters and I rode with them. And then I just did some other rides on my own. So I had 

Matt: a great time. You did the shootout or the scoot out. 

Lance: I did that.

Lance: So let me, I'll get to that in a second. I did the dogs of Tucson. They do a Mount Lemon ride every Thursday where we meet at La Buzz. La Buzz is like the, the little coffee shop down at, you know, at the base of the Catalina highway. And [00:11:00] it is 

Matt (2): good. 

Lance: Fantastic little coffee shop, great food. That's, and literally there's hundreds of cyclists who go through there.

Lance: How was the coffee? I don't know. Oh, come on, dude. I couldn't tell you. So the, the dogs on Thursday, they start a ride up Tucson, you know, or, uh, uh, Mount Lemon, and they usually only go like the first six or seven miles. And the climb on Mount Lemon is 21 miles long. And I don't know, I ended up with a wild hair and I just rode all the way to the top.

Lance: So, my legs didn't feel bad. I went really hard for the first 7 miles and then just kind of zone 2'd it the rest of the way up. And felt great. It just was 

Jake: Were you chasing, um, a time and then just kind of changed your mind because 

Lance: No, I was doing a, I was in a prescribed effort. I was trying to do a 30 minute effort.

Lance: I thought you might 

Jake: be trying to pick somebody off. I don't think you're going to get on the leaderboard. No, just because there's some serious hitters that go up [00:12:00] that, but I can see you saying, Oh, there's so and so I'm going to better their time. It's in them. 

Lance: Yeah, they're there. Yeah. I have my eye on a couple of segments on lemon, but I'm, I'm not going to get segments on a climb.

Lance: Anyway, so it was great. Mount lemon is a fantastic climb. Um, it's pretty steady gradient. So doing efforts on it is just, it's perfect. You don't, there's no lights. There's a good, there's a good shoulder. The pavement is pretty decent right now. There's no snow up there, which is also weird. I rode all the way to the top at 8, 500 feet or whatever.

Lance: There's no snow 

Jake: up there. It was like. Was it Mount Fuji for the first time? It was like sometime in November. I don't, I don't know why this just popped in my head. I saw an article about it. It was first time in November that it didn't have any snow on it. 

Lance: Oh, wow. Which 

Jake: is kind 

Lance: of amazing. Phoenix has not had measurable rain for like five months.

Lance: Oh, wow. Even through the monsoon season, nothing happened. They are bone dry in Phoenix, so [00:13:00] weird stuff is happening. Anyway, I did that Mount Lemmon ride and just had a great time and felt great afterwards. So, Matt, you were asking me about the shootout. I did the Tucson shootout again. Um, the shootout is a is a fabled group ride that happens every Saturday, rain or shine, uh, regardless of the weather.

Lance: It's been going on for 40 years, so it's been going on for a long, long time. Um, January in Tucson, there are a lot of hitters in town. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lance: So, there's an A group that goes at 7. 30am. Yeah. And a B group that's called the Scoot Out or the Old Man Shoot Out. That goes at 7. 35. It goes five minutes later. I still feel like, I 

Matt: said this in your comments of your video, I feel like someone needs to show up on a scooter and just be like, like, just, just like roll up with like, like, I think like, no, like not even an electric scooter, just like straight up scooter and just be like, roll up with gloves on and just be like.

Matt: [00:14:00] I'm right when you guys are, you know, check it out and just be like, this is the scoot out. You guys have messed up the situation. Like you messed it up anyway. 

Lance: So then there's a, there's a C group as well, but the, um, the a group this, this Saturday, I think it had like 150 people in it. It was gigantic. And as you, you roll.

Lance: There's like 10 miles of neutral where you're rolling through town and you, you get past all the lights and all the stop signs. So there's like 10 miles of rolling and as you're rolling through it's like, it's like you're on the school bus. You just keep picking up groups of people that are waiting. Oh, people just come in?

Lance: Yeah, people are waiting for the group to come by. They don't, they don't ride all the way into the University of Arizona. They just wait, you know, for the group to come by. But like the, the A Group had, Quinn Simmons and Keegan Swenson and Kerry Werner and, and Matthew Ello. And Matthew Stites and . It had so many freaking fast hitters.

Lance: There's a 

Matt: lot of [00:15:00] pro athletes that like Hop in too. Yeah. Sam Long, Sam Long was, he was on it. He was in town. He was on it on Saturday. Doesn't surprise me. 

Lance: Yeah. Yeah. So they're all, I didn't actually physically see any of those guys. Yeah. Because I don't think they started in town. I think they, they hopped in, you know.

Lance: Um, I went with the B group, which is the old man shootout. The idea is, if you get shelled from the A group, you can drop back and catch the B group, which is rolling. And they've, they've changed the timing, because it didn't used to be that way. The B group used to go first, and then you'd get like, ripped by, by the A group.

Lance: But, uh, that doesn't happen anymore, so. I did the A, the, the B group. Again, the B group had a hundred people in it. It was gigantic. And there was a whole team of high schoolers that jumped into, there's a local team called El Grupo. That is, it's a couple of masters guys that are, are like coaching and training all these local high school athletes to learn how to, and [00:16:00] so there was a guy, he's like, he's like coaching his guys and, Literally, uh, a, it looked like one of the kids next to me was like 12 years old,

Lance: It looked like he was that young. I don't think he was, but, but it was, uh, it was pretty crazy. Shootout was a blast. It's around 70 miles. It's only like 2,500 feet of climbing, so it's not a ton of climbing. Um, there are some segments that are like one or 2 percent uphill for like 18 miles. And so that is, you're usually drilling it at that point.

Lance: Saturday's ride wasn't quite as fast as when I did it in October. Go figure. I did it, I did it in October and it was, it was a lot faster. All the segments were a lot faster and it just depends on who shows up and who, who goes to the front and who drills it. And it's just a regular, like. Light them up. 

Jake: So just to ask you a couple of questions about this, the A group, you said had a 150 B group, a hundred 

Lance: in the C 

Jake: group, 

Lance: another 50 or 75.

Lance: Wow. Lord. 

Jake: So 300 ish [00:17:00] people showing up on this ride. Yes. That's pretty consistent. It's going to ebb and flow just a little bit, just depending on different factors and whatnot. 

Lance: But I think it gets bigger during the winter when all the people are there training during the winter. 

Jake: So, and they're doing a 70 mile 

Lance: route and that's pretty much everybody.

Lance: Yes. Okay. No, well, so there's an, there's an, there's an extra shootout. You can do, you can at halfway, you can peel off and go climb what's called Madera Canyon, which adds like a five mile proper, steep climb to it. Um, and then they come back and so that, that would be like a hundred mile ride. 

Jake: Now, just out of curiosity, and we've probably talked about this before, probably talked about it when you were there last time, but it's worth talking about again, how are they received on the roads?

Jake: Are people getting pissed at them? Are cars like very accepting of them? Or do people 

Matt: understand that this is the. What you get in Tucson. 

Lance: So it's been happening for 40 years. So it's been around for a long time. The where, where the ride [00:18:00] starts to get spicy and ramps up are these country roads where there's, there's not much shoulder, but there's no traffic.

Lance: There's literally, I may have seen like four cars. 

Jake: Good line of sight as well. Yes. And everybody's behaving, being mindful of like center line and things of that nature for the most part. I'm sure it's going to happen, 

Lance: but for the most part, yeah, it was all, I mean, I didn't feel unsafe. I didn't feel like people were like, like moving improperly, or it felt like a good, proper, hard group ride.

Lance: Any stop signs, stop lights? No. So, um, about 18 miles in or 20 miles in, there's a spot called Sprint Hill. It's like one sharp little steep hill. So everybody sprints to that and then soft rolls to the next stop sign. Then there's a five mile. 1 percent downhill stretch that you're doing 35 miles an hour on just hammering until the first stoplight and, and the sprint point [00:19:00] is like the sign before the first stoplight.

Lance: And then, and then you stop at a gas station. So people can Yeah. Okay. You regroup and refuel. It is not a It is, it is a rolling stop. It is You do not languish. You, you keep moving. Mm hmm. Then you hop back on, and you ride up this road called Helmet Peak, and that's a five mile road that is like two and a half percent uphill.

Lance: Mm hmm. So again, you're still doing like 20 miles an hour. Two and a half percent uphill in a group, it gets to the top and then you have an 11 mile downhill to the next stop sign, which is like 1%, one and a half percent. And you're doing again, 35 miles an hour in a group, swapping poles, swapping rotations, you know, all the way to the The very, then there's a stop ahead sign and that is the last sprint before you hit town.

Jake: Okay. And that's gotta be like the, the, the, I don't know, the, the queen part of the stage. So that's the one that you want to win. And then the other things [00:20:00] throughout are just kind of for like chest pounding, bragging points kind of thing. It's all practice. It's 

Lance: all, you know, you're just, you're just trying to see how you're feeling and whatnot.

Lance: Okay. Did you ever feel unsafe? Um, I did not. Um, no, I. With this group, a hundred, um, sprint Hill, I, I sat, I sat like 40 wheels deep for the whole first, like 18 miles. I just was saving my energy a little bit and was like 10th up sprint Hill, which was like decent for me. Sure. Uh, but the second sprint into Sayurita, I think that's the name of the town.

Lance: Um, I ended up second in that sprint. So I just was, I just like picked the right wheels and then went at the right time. Yeah. Um, and yeah, it all felt pretty, pretty safe. The, the final sprint, um, I got on Scott Simmons wheel. Do you know who Scott Simmons is? 

Jake: Sounds familiar. 

Lance: Scott Simmons is Colby is Quinn Simmons father.

Lance: Okay. Gotcha. Okay. So he's my age, [00:21:00] big beard, super skinny, freaking rockstar, super fast. He had started with the a group and dropped back to the B group. And so, um, he was mixing it up with us at the very end and he was trying to lead out, uh, A, a girl, she couldn't have been more than like 19 years old. So at the very end, he was trying to lead out this girl, but she peeled off of him and I jumped back on his wheel right at the very end.

Lance: And um, I was, and Scott kind of sat up in that final sprint and I went right around him instead of left, but he was leaving a lane and I called out as I was coming right. I'm like, Scott, I'm on your right, I'm on your right. And he held his line so I didn't get pinched or get thrown off the road. And, and I was able to out sprint the other two people.

Lance: So I ended up winning the very last stop ahead sprint out of the So 

Matt: basically you edged out a 13 year old girl for the victory and you're proud about it. Yeah. Okay. 

Lance: So [00:22:00] there was, there was a girl and there was one of those teenagers was also going for it, but he went like way too early. You can see him just like.

Lance: Just like kind of explode. Yeah, just kind of give up and I went around to the right. So 

Matt: nice work punk teenager Probably not even a teenager yet preteen Tweener 

Jake: nice job tweener But anyway going back to this the shootout though I mean, you've got to say that they're doing it right because they've been doing this for 40 years They're getting that kind of a turnout it Just happens every single week.

Jake: Nobody has, it's just unwritten that it happens. Right. It's just like, you know, and, and I love that. And that's what I used to be accustomed to when I would ride in Southern California. There were a lot of rides that were kind of like that coming up here. It was hard to find, but now we have the savvy shootout, which is great.

Jake: And a lot of people just show up for that and it does have them flow, but it's not nearly as big as the. When it's 

Lance: big, it's like 50 people or 60 people here. 

Jake: You know, and that's what we want from the flogging ride, but you know, down there, they have a [00:23:00] definite advantage in that it's going to go year round because they've got the weather to support it.

Jake: And they've also got. Roads that are relatively free and clear of cars and traffic and you can safely do everything that you want to do. Is there anything else though, that sets it apart from like other rides that, that are around us, maybe that, that could, that we could learn from, or 

Lance: we could adopt or the biggest thing is just because of its location, you have so many people in town to do these rides.

Lance: So there are other options to, to ride during that day. There's even a women's shootout that they do. Then it doesn't go till like. Like nine o'clock or something. It goes later in the day, but if you just want to race with women or race practice with women, you can do that too. So 

Matt: do you think, do you think our flogging ride could use a women's group?

Matt: We've done that in the past. I've 

Jake: tried that and it's worked a bit. Uh, it works when times are busy. Yeah. But this past year it was anemic at best. And 

Matt: maybe, maybe it's one of the things where you're like, okay, at the peak summer, we picked up. You know, [00:24:00] three weeks or two weeks or even maybe just one particular day where we have like, and this is the one where we have this women's ride, it goes on, that's a great idea for the be right, so that it's not like, It's not the same as like every week you expect a women trend.

Matt: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what this this year might be different too because I also think that a lot of times when you're there, it helps pull the whole community together a little bit. People tell them, tell me that, but I don't want that to be the case. It's not your fault, man. Don't feel like you have the obligation on your shoulders, but it is what it is.

Matt: We've, 

Jake: we've had great weeks where in, in, And like strung out for the entire summer where we had 50, 60, 70 people showing up for the ride. And this past year, it just seemed like it was never really that populated. I mean, on average, I think we're getting like 25 or 30 people, like the busier weeks, maybe 40, but it was like never, like it was kind of at its peak and I don't, I don't really know why I don't, I don't know.

Jake: I don't feel like anything has happened that's been unsafe. Um, I think that the, the roads have been pretty good. The, the cars, we haven't had any issues with for the most part. I mean, [00:25:00] it's a, 

Matt: it's a rough time of day and it's also on roads that are not the friendliest. That's always been my. Like, there's been my like grain of sand that's been in my, in my groin region during, just, just rubbing me the wrong way.

Matt: Growing a pearl.

Lance: Yeah. One of the differences, the shootout is on Saturday. It's always Saturday. It's always been Saturday. And, and if we did our shootout, if we did our flogging ride on Saturday, it's during our like race season. So it wouldn't conflict. It doesn't. It doesn't quite work for us because it, 

Jake: and they're off seasons when they get peaked with the number of people are off season.

Jake: We've got crap weather for the most part. So you're just not going to get that consistency that way. So, I mean, we do have this other route that we've talked about and I was supposed to roll it out this past year. We were going to talk about that. You know, we were going to do that, you know, for sure, make it happen.

Jake: We've been talking about doing that for a while, but I ended up having to find out that I was going to go have surgery. I'm like, I just don't have [00:26:00] time for it. So table, but that would be a good place for that. So is there anything to maybe. Trying something out there that can be more consistent and do it on one of the weekend days Whatever day the shootout's not on to do something different.

Lance: That's possible. This is 

Jake: the 

Lance: shootout here is on Sunday Yeah, so the Savi shootout here in Portland is on Sunday I 

Matt: love Sunday for just because I think traffic is so much better on Sundays and people don't have necessarily like a race calendar stuff Going on on Sundays. They're typically a rest day for a lot of people and People, you know, weather's good.

Matt: They want to go bike. I don't know. 

Jake: Yeah. Thing around here too. There's so many great things to go do and go ride and check out, try. And that's generally what Saturdays are for us. Like, you don't want to be doing the same exact thing every Saturday. You want to take advantage of that time because you can go somewhere and do something a little bit more special.

Jake: So I know that's something to think about. mull over and think about a little bit more, but it sure would be nice to have that consistency during the week, because I can tell you [00:27:00] that I got such a great training effect from that. Met so many great people, had so much fun and always looked forward to that.

Jake: Like you could pick a ride Monday through Friday and go do something with a big group of people and they all had a different flavor and a different flair and different hitters and whatnot that would show up. And it just made for a really cool dynamic and you could work it into your training program.

Jake: It was awesome. And I don't think that like our group should 

Matt: be. Not looking to improve our group rides and stuff like that But maybe we also take a second to appreciate what they are. They are good Yeah, it may not be that they need to change anything. It just mean we haven't had it for 40 years 

Jake: Yeah, 

Matt: but and maybe that's all it is.

Matt: It's like this could be something great It's just built and built or 20 30 years, you know It just takes time to build these things and people do like the flogging ride It was 

Lance: a guy who owns a bike shop who started the Tucson shootout, just like us. Well, 

Jake: just keep going. Keep trucking. 

Lance: Keep on 

Matt: trucking.

Jake: Cool. Anything else up? 

Lance: No, I've talked too much. It's good to 

Jake: have 

Lance: you back. Thank you. How long are you [00:28:00] back for? Six days. Where are you going? I'm going to Tenerife. 

Matt: Oh, okay. I'm going to Europe. Yeah, I feel sorry for you. I'm sorry. Tough times, tough times. Bike trip, Tenerife. Got to get ready. 

Jake: Uh, my backpedal real quick.

Jake: I, I rode last week on the trainer. Fantastic. I did not ride outside, but I rode on the trainer. I was taking Monday off per usual, and then I was going to ride on Tuesday. Life happened, didn't ride on Tuesday. It was okay. Regroup, I'll ride on Wednesday. Life happened again. It didn't right on Wednesday. Too many things going on.

Jake: So, um, I went ahead and said, all right, then I'm going to start on Thursday, which I did. And I was able to string together four days in a row, which was solid. Um, How do things feel after four days? They were good. My ride that I did on Friday was absolute Ass. It was, it was, there's two different, 

Matt: there's two different absolute ass.

Matt: Absolute ass. Like my hip hurts or my ankle hurts or like there's pain involved or absolute ass. Like my muscles are tired and my heart rate's higher than it should be [00:29:00] or like fatigue 

Jake: fatigue. You know what I mean? I, I, I don't think it was either of those. It wasn't from like overdoing it and I wasn't dealing with pain, so that wasn't the problem, but I don't know what happened to me, but I was about 20 minutes in, I just wanted to get off the bike.

Jake: Okay. And I was riding with one of those pacer block groups and we're cruising along at like, I don't know, was it like 200 or 210 watts? And usually that's a piece of cake for me. I can do it all day long. And I had to let them go because I couldn't manage it. My legs were feeling tight and heavy and crampy and like my energy was See, I think that's okay.

Lance: That happens sometimes. Yeah. I think that's 

Matt: okay. This sounds to me like, uh, more on the other side where it's like, Feeling crappy because you've ridden four days in a row, or maybe you didn't sleep great, or whatever it was. It probably had to do with sleep, it probably had to do with what I had eaten.

Matt: But not pain. Correct. Not like, Oh, this something hurts and I shouldn't be writing. 

Jake: But I was writing like not hard at all. And I feeling like I'm going to crap towards that right. And I, as soon as it crossed over an hour, I don't know why my brain had to get to an hour. It's not like I'm doing the dialed 100.

Jake: I just had to get to an hour. Just, I'm [00:30:00] like, I got to persevere. If I, if I'm going to have a crappy workout, I've at least got to have a little bit of mental fortitude here and push through. And I did. And I got off and called it a day. The next day I was a little bit sore. Still did my hour and five ish minutes and I'm like, all right, that's fine.

Jake: I wanted to ride longer on Saturday, but just went for an hour and five minutes trying to listen to my body. And then I came back yesterday, Sunday and jumped on the trainer and knocked out, um, about an hour and 45 minutes, which was pretty good. That was the longest ride that I had done to date. So, um, it was 

Matt: good because you know, that window of like when you and I could have ridden together, that's gone.

Matt: That's gone. No. sad. He's already past that. It comes out of surgery, the anesthesia wears off, and there's like this little window where I could ride with you, you know, probably where you're still feeling some effects from the surgery. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh yeah, I was just putting out 250 watts for, you know, an hour and 45 minutes.

Matt: And I'm like. Yeah, that's too bad. 

Jake: Anyway, I, um, felt good after that ride and, and probably could have ridden longer, but I'm like, all right, that's enough. And I'm just trying to show my weekly increase. So I, again, [00:31:00] had another bump and it's just going right in the right direction. All the trajectories looking good.

Jake: As a matter of fact, I'm half thinking about maybe jumping on the bike tonight for just a short period of time to do some active recovery. Probably like next week. 30, 40 minutes or something like that. And then have a good full week this week. I also told Lance yesterday when he and I were chatting, um, on his drive home that I think that it's ready to, it's time to get back on the bike and ride outside.

Jake: So now I've got to go figure out my bikes though. They're probably like, it's all dry and everything's seized up and parts have 

Lance: been stolen for other bikes. 

Jake: That too, I did, I did build up a new bike and then it got disabled and used for other stuff. It got cannibalized 

Lance: several times. I 

Jake: wonder what 

Matt: the weather's looking like for the next six days, Lance.

Jake: Rain on Thursday and that's about it. It's supposed to be pretty much sunny for the rest of the day. Is it kind of like sunny and cloudy? Yes, sunny and cold. I'll 

Lance: take that. I mean, it might have a few more clouds than we've had today. Here's the thing. It's, it's winter. 

Matt: It should be cold. I mean, ideally, usually we have snow at this point.

Matt: Like we have snow. We don't get a lot of snow in this area. If you guys are listening from a different area, but we usually have like a [00:32:00] snow block in December sometimes. And then like January, February, we'll get like some little ice storm stuff. Nothing yet. And I'm worried. Second 

Jake: week of February. We've got some snow potential in the forecast.

Jake: There's a 40 block in there that they're saying that the. I don't want to get into that. I mean, I kind of 

Matt: want us to have some snow at I absolutely love 

Jake: it. I start in November, start looking at the 45 day forecast, and I circle the dates, and I'm like, there it is, and I send it to my family, and my wife's like, yeah, it ain't happening.

Jake: I'm like, you say that, because every time you do, that's when we get it, so, anyway. Um, We'll go right outside. Be fun. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. Yes. That's it. I don't have any long backpedal for us today. For sure. Let's um, let's move on. 

EPO Chainmail: Bring 

Matt: champ in, bring them around. Hold on. Bring them out of the dungeon.

Matt: Oh, don't smash that face, 

EPO Chainmail: champ. 

Matt: Don't 

EPO Chainmail: smash. 

Matt: Dorothy, man, too. 

Lance: And never call her again. Oh, I love that. Champ is here. Hello, I'm back. And, [00:33:00] uh, thank you for listening to the world's worst cycling sports podcaster. Okay, but beloved, but beloved, a couple things have happened the, uh, the tour down under in Australia has started, uh, the women's race was three stages long and it was won by a Swiss writer, Noemi, oh jeez, Noemi Ruge, nailed it first try, Noemi Ruge.

Lance: You totally changed her name. Noemi Rueg, or Nomi Rueg. Anyway, she won. Congratulations, way to go. Stage 3 was actually won by American Chloe Dygart. Is the guys race a week long? The guys race is a week long event. They had like a fake crit yesterday. Today is a rest day. The first stage is tomorrow. 

Jake: Didn't they have a big pile up or a crash in their crit yesterday?

Jake: It might've 

Lance: been. I don't know. I was driving. So I was trying not to [00:34:00] watch videos. 

Matt: Worst sports newscaster ever. Go back and watch 

Jake: it. I don't, I thought, I think I saw just a short clip on Instagram and I'm never on social media and it just popped up and I'm like, Oh, that looks interesting. Oh, that's the thing.

Jake: But anyway, they came into a corner. Uh, and I think like the first guy went down into the barrier and then the second guy hit him and flew off his bike over the barrier into the people. I was like, this is why people should not do crits. Yeah. Just want more on that to come. 

Lance: Crit racing. Yeah. Anyway. So, uh, world tour racing is back and it should be exciting.

Lance: All the new teams are, have, are showing their new bikes that are down there and new kits, and so that's all kind of exciting. So more of that to come with the men's race. We did have a World Cup Cyclocross race in Benidorm, Spain. Um, so that was exciting. Wout van Aert decided to line up. His, the, the Visma team is in Spain doing their training camp at the moment.

Lance: And Wout just took the day off to go to the Cyclocross race. Cause they're in the same area. Did he [00:35:00] win? No. Uh, well, did not win. He was in the mix like, um, in first or second with just half a lap to go. But Thibaut Nice made a brilliant move. That is Sven Nice's son. Um, he made a brilliant move and got away and T Bone East ended up winning and Wout faded to fourth.

Matt: Has Wout won anything this year? 

Lance: Yes, he won two races, uh, at the end of 

Matt: the Cursed Period. Do you feel like if he has a bad season overall with X Cross, do you think he just might be done with it? Like, I'm wondering if 

Lance: He loves it. 

Matt: He loves it. 

Lance: He loves doing it. He loves showing up for it. It's what got him his, his start in, in cycling.

Lance: And so he still will show up and line up at races. Plus he's probably getting paid to show up. So maybe not a UCI race, but he, but other races, he's, he's getting, he's getting paid to show up. There's show up money. So that's pretty cool. So, uh, uh, Thibaut Nisse won that race, um, and it, it was, I just saw a couple clips of it, I did not see that whole race either, cause I was driving, but I 

Matt: [00:36:00] would think that Wout gets more show up money than Thibaut Nisse at these races.

Matt: Yes. Significantly more. 

Lance: Thibaut also, last weekend, won the Belgian National Cyclocross Championship. Which is a huge deal. So, he was super stoked to do that. How old is he again? I don't know. He's young though, yeah? 21 or 23 or something like that. But he's also racing road. He has a full road season and races on the road.

Jake: Who's he with? 

Lance: I don't know. 

Matt: Good job champ on a team. Okay. It's not a role that he said he's on a team. Okay. You don't need any more details. 

Lance: What do you want? 

Matt: What do you want from him? Champ 

Lance: Bailey, champ Bailey is out. That's a nice, that's all I've got. 

Jake: Thank you, champ. We appreciate that. Let's keep her moving on.

EPO Chainmail: Dealing with nothing but my own blood, sweat, and tears and extra blood. Have I heard this before? Yeah. Yeah. You know, this is a sport with literally hundreds of dollars on the line and dozens of fans [00:37:00] that stakes are medium How do you beat a man on drugs if you're not on drugs? Wait, did you just admit to being on drugs the epo chain mail?

EPO Chainmail: Send us a text with your questions Forward this podcast to 15 people and you'll lose 10 pounds overnight without even trying i'm dented 

Matt: you've got mail You and I are close. All right. I think you, yeah. 

Jake: When was the last time you guys got a chain mail? You guys remember those things? Oh, chain mails were 

Matt: good.

Jake: Good times were had. Ha ha ha. All right. We've got a bunch of questions from quite a few different listeners. Fantastic. Which is, it makes my heart happy. And I get this little buzz and it comes through and I'm like, Oh, somebody has a question. So I'm always excited to bring those. Um, Um, some good ones in here and some that are like really good, so good that we're going to actually call these our topics for the day.

Jake: Oh boy. Okay. We're going to let the, the, the chain mail, EPO chain mail govern the topic for the day. Your questions answered. Your questions answered. Thank you for that. Um, all right. So the first [00:38:00] question comes from a listener who wants, um, a question answered. Okay. The question reads 

Matt (2): What is the question?

Matt (2): Allow myself 

Matt: to introduce myself. It's like Austin Powers or something like that. Wasn't that where that's from? Sorry. 

Jake: Um, here it goes. A little late, but post holiday question for you guys. Is it true that Hermie, the elf who wants to be a dentist on the 1964 classic Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer is based entirely on Lance Friggin 

Lance: Hepler.

Lance: Yes! Confirm. I just want to be a dentist. Confirm. Yes, that's good. I have, I have dozens of Hermie the Elf dolls from my dentist time. People would just give them to me because it was freaking hilarious. So. 

Jake: Hero? Is he a hero? 

Lance: He's a hero of mine. Did 

Jake: you idolize him growing up? Yeah, yeah, he's my guy. Alright, um, let's jump into the next [00:39:00] couple questions.

Jake: That was the fun one. These all, uh, these other ones are all, um, much more cycling related. Even though Lansford and Hepler is kind of cycling related. But anyway, back to Chris. 

Lance: Not really. 

Jake: All right. First question. How do I get comfortable racing crits? They scare me. 

Lance: Uh, you don't. Yeah. Scrip script. Racing is scary.

Lance: Real scary. Uh, crit racing is scary. It is. Uh, you're going, uh, kind of full gas in a very tight group. And it, uh, I think the only way to get comfortable doing it is to do it more or to do race practice simulations with your buddies or go to the, uh, the. Savvy shootout or the Tucson shootout to learn what it's like to ride at speed close to somebody.

Lance: Yeah. Take some practice. 

Jake: You've just got to fully, like, embrace the whole concept too. It's not if, but when you're going to go down, it's just going to happen. It, it, everybody. I mean, even the best guys are going to go down at some point in time. Can you, do you know anybody that does crit racing regularly that doesn't?

Jake: Has never crashed? 

Lance: Nope. 

Matt (2): Yeah. 

Lance: They all do it. Yeah. You all up [00:40:00] eventually crashing at some point, unless you're just completely playing it safe off the back. And if you're completely saying it, playing it safe off the back, I can't talk today. You're, you're going to get dropped because two people gap and then there's a little accordion effect and pop, you're gone.

Lance: True that. So yeah. 

Jake: Yeah. Stay more towards the front if you possibly can. Um, and once you get off the back too, you end up burning a lot more bullets back there. Because of that accordion effect, like you're like. It's just less consistent. It's 

Matt: less consistent riding. And throughout the race it's like, sprint, sprint, sprint, brake.

Matt: You're like grabbing brakes. It's so bad in the back. It's not really fun to race back there. I know from personal experience. Because 

Lance: that's where I spend my time. Funny enough, the funnest crits I do are the ones that are more technical. That have more turns and more corners. Because it's, you're just, you're completely engaged.

Lance: You cannot, all you're thinking about is It Is the wheel ahead of you? Can I move up here? Can I hold my feet? Can, can, [00:41:00] is there a way to go without burning too many matches? Uh, it's not big, wide open road crits are just a little bit, it's a different type of race experience, but maybe you do a race that has more wide open roads where.

Lance: It's, it's not quite as technical. The Red Arc crit, uh, on Swan Island has pretty wide open roads. So although there's still crashes, 

Jake: plenty of them. Yeah. A lot of times though, it's more of the lower levels that you're going to have to deal with the crashes in a scenario like that, but that's the problem is like, you've got to go through that.

Jake: To cat up, to make your way up to the top. So, you know, just going with as much fitness, you can know your body and try and stay towards the fun front as much as possible. Yeah. I mean, what else would you recommend? 

Lance: Um, watch videos, find stuff on YouTube, 

Jake: NorCal, NorCal cycling. That's a fun one to watch there.

Jake: You can 

Matt: also try to record your own races and have other people try to like help you, you know, like basically kind of. Co [00:42:00] co coach you. I feel like Dylan would do that a lot. Like that's basically how his channel started is he would be like, we have to do it, take my race and then people can like, we can kind of rewatch it and learn from it.

Matt: So there's, there's ways to learn from your mistakes. And 

Jake: then the guys at NorCal cycling as well, they'll let you like submit your video for them to use on their channel. Cause they need content, you know? So, and then they'll do like a full breakdown of it and they'll give you like, you know, good constructive feedback on how the race went for you.

Jake: So, um, yeah. What about your bike? Are you using your a bike? I use my a bike. Yeah. Yep. Are you okay? Well, yeah, you're probably okay with that. Yeah. I just go with it. Yeah. So, um, anything else that you guys can throw out there, like how to get more comfortable? I mean, I think that your point of like getting as much practice in as you possibly can go find some group rides that have race simulation is going to be a good thing.

Jake: That's the best thing. Possibly even set up some of your own little like practice 

Lance: things if you can. It's very different writing in a group at. 16 or 17 miles an hour, then riding in a group [00:43:00] at 28 miles an hour, you're, you're engaged very differently and stuff comes at you a whole lot faster. And, and, um, wind resistance matters more at 28 miles an hour than it does at 16 miles an hour.

Lance: So you're, you, you gotta, conservation is 

Jake: huge in, in crit racing, especially given how many matches you're doing. And the fact that you're riding on the rivet for what, 40 minutes to an hour, depending upon what kind of race, like if you can conserve your energy as much as possible, you're going to put yourself in the best position and you're going to be probably in a better part of the field where you're trying to take advantage of that, that draft as much as possible.

Jake: And that usually means more of that riffraffy stuff is hopefully happening behind you. So that's a comfort factor there for sure. Um, I think personally, you've got to be very tuned into the people around you. I mean, there are some little telltale signs and it's not going to be a hundred percent every single time, but you can look at some people and you can say that guy doesn't look like he [00:44:00] is somebody that has a ton of race experience.

Jake: And you want to keep an eye on him and then just watch his patterns. Watch how he handles himself, watch how he puts himself in lines and takes corners. And if he's doing anything that seems kind of like, Oh, that's sketchy. Stay away from that guy. Yep. You know, you'll start to pick up on those things. And some people that will be writing super aggressive to like, try and stay away from them because there's this whole thing where if you go.

Jake: You know, cutting people off, like those people are going to have to get out of the way and they might hit somebody else could take you out kind of a thing. So make sure that you put yourself in a position around that person where. You're trying to take advantage of the fact that they're burning their matches, but you also don't want to be in the wake of their destruction and be a part of that.

Jake: I'm going to be doing a lot of work on that process. If that makes sense. Yes, that does make sense. It's it's yeah, it I love grits, but I'm scared to death of them because I'm so done with being injured, but that's kind of what I was built for. I mean, I can climb pretty good when I'm fit for a big guy can climb relatively well, which is fine.

Jake: I'm good rollier, but like when it [00:45:00] comes to being able to hold sustained Watts and being able to, um, handle your bike and being able to sprint and put out the numbers. That's crit racing right there, right? So that's what I should be doing. But again, I just don't want to do it cause I don't want to get crashed out.

Jake: And I get it. I mean, they scare me 

Lance: too. Every time I do a crit race at the end, I am elated. I just feel so good after the race because you're so engaged during that race. And it kind of takes a lot to shut off, but. Uh, yeah, it is, it is scary. It's just, that's, that's part of it. It's scary. The only way it wouldn't be scary is if you were off the front.

Lance: Yeah. So, and do that. That's fun too. Go to 

Matt: the front and then just keep going. And then just go off. And then just keep going a little bit further. Yeah. Separate yourself 

Lance: five to 10 minutes. Yep. And then, and then you're good. And then if you lap the whole field, then you can just sit in the back and it doesn't matter when.

Jake: Yeah. 

Lance: Perfect. Yeah. Strategy. 

Jake: Cool. 

Lance: [00:46:00] So easy. 

Jake: All right. Anything else to say on that, or do you want to the next question? I feel like 

Matt: we've taken it seriously enough. 

Jake: Alright, let's move on. Alright, with Campagnolo's return to the world tour with Cofidis, will the brand return to prominence, or is the segment filled by Sram and Shimano now?

Jake: Is it just not going to be something that they can, um, they can inch their way in there? Um, how can Campy, um, set itself apart from those two brands. 

Matt: They're always going to be the Italian premium brand. And I think they should lean into that and try to keep that like kind of, I don't know what the right word for it is.

Matt: Like market persona. They have the, they have the old man market in middle aged Italian men. People that can afford it. Italy. It's yeah. And I think that they should also continue to keep up with the technology. I mean, like they. Don't they do something crazy like 13 speed or something like they came out with 13 speed.

Matt: So I feel like they need to kind of lean into like, Hey, we're, we're the best. [00:47:00] We're this premium brand. We have fantastic options. Some really cool performance stuff. And I think that that's where they should probably be. I think it's always going to be. I don't think they're a company that should be like, let's race to the bottom on price.

Matt: Like that's not, that's not, they're not going to win there. Right. Cause it's just like, that'd be hard to win there. Right. Because there's no, there's no margins in those spots. 

Jake: You got to innovate. I mean, you've got to be ahead of the curve. So they're doing that with their 13 speed stuff and they do have their wireless shifting now.

Jake: Um, yeah. I have personally not played with it enough to give you an honest answer, but I haven't heard people say anything bad about it, but I also haven't heard anybody say anything good about it. And I also don't know anybody who rides it. And I know quite a few people out riding bikes. It's because 

Matt: the other stuff is pretty good right now.

Matt: It's, I feel like when everything switched to electronic, is that timeframe where it was like, Well, all this electronic feels pretty good. Yeah, and then all of a sudden you're like well Then you're competing on like all these other little things like weight and all this other kind of stuff It's like mmm, it gets hard for you to be like, I'm gonna pay [00:48:00] twice the price for the brand name recognition I don't know.

Matt: I mean, that's just my two cents. I don't foresee it changing I think it's kind of a Shram Shimano world for the next for the next foreseeable future for the next couple years. That's It's hard to predict past five years. 

Lance: My issue is availability. Like, if I have a piece that breaks or whatnot, I can get a, I can get a SRAM replacement pretty fast.

Lance: Pretty quick. Campagnolo. I might even be able to go find it that day somewhere. Uh, and for the most part, Shimano as well. But Campagnolo? No. Well, Shimano has its 

Matt: problems, right? Quit supporting whatever the previous edition of their di2 speed. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So it's like, there's some frustration everywhere, but it's, yeah.

Jake: That's where they need to, that's if you ask me, they need to put their sights squarely on Shimano and say, where can we beat them the most and the most consistently, because right now. [00:49:00] They're crapping the bed. I mean, they're, they're always going to have a good component mix and they're, they're always putting out good stuff, but they're, they're making a lot of missteps right now, in my opinion, I mean, they came out with their wireless stuff and it just wasn't all that great and they went to 12 speed, which finally they caught up with SRAM that had done it four years prior.

Jake: But it's not truly a fully wireless system. And a lot of people ended up hard wiring the shifters into the mix because of all the battery draining issues that they were having with the wireless. So, and then, and then there's, yeah, I don't know. I was buying their power meter, their power meter sucks.

Jake: Their cranks were breaking in half. They discontinued making all of their, uh, 11 speed stuff that a lot of people, it's still in heavy mix right now. We've got customers coming in, like, Hey, my, you know, I had a crash and my, my shifter broke. Can we get that replaced? Oh, yeah, we can take care of that. And you go look at like, wait, you discontinued that?

Jake: Are you kidding me? 

Matt: I think their gravel stuff is very well received. I think people, the Tiaraq stuff is nice. People seem to like that quite a bit. I think that [00:50:00] their old Di2 heart, like everything wired in was very, very popular. I think it was pretty, pretty impressive. And then I think if you look at kind of their entry level, like not entry entry, but like that 105 level stuff, like 105 DI2, like that's going to make a lot of sense for a lot of people.

Matt: So I think it depends on kind of like, I think they're, yeah, they have some issues, but they're still squarely the leader in the market. Yeah, 

Jake: but they lost a massive chunk of the market share. Yeah. I mean, I could go on, I mean, I don't like their battery and the fact that the battery is like in a spot that's hard to get to, and you can't just simply change it out like you can't with a Sram battery.

Jake: I mean, it's that right there. It's like, all right, that's a whole nother reason. I mean, we talk about this, we joke about it all the time and don't get me wrong. We all like Shimano. It's great stuff. But if I have a. I have a choice. I'm going with SRAM and we always are talking about, Oh, just another reason to get SRAM, I mean, there's all these little things that we deal with, like behind the scenes with respect to working on bikes or fixing things, it's like, [00:51:00] yeah, that sucks.

Jake: Another reason to like SRAM. 

Matt: I, you know what I think if I would be, I'm most scared if I were one of these companies of a affordable Chinese manufacturer coming in with a product that is solid enough for. Like a third the price, maybe a quarter of the price, like the one that just bought Rotor 

Jake: and is going to kind of do that.

Jake: And then is that what's going to happen? Yeah. 

Matt: It's just so it's interesting. The prices on this stuff seem very high for what it is. And I'm thinking to myself, like, this is nice stuff. And it's like, but it could be more plasticky. And it's like, you, you look at it and you're like, oh, this is all, we're, we're all paying premiums for these things that someone's not going to pay for it.

Matt: Right. Like if you're a college student or whatever, and you're like, Hey, mine works Transcribed you know, electronic shifting, it's going to work pretty solid. And I don't, you know, I don't want to spend more than 250. Like if there's a brand that can pull that off, like that's going to be interesting in the future.

Matt: So that's what I'd be most scared of if I were any of these major companies, not necessarily that, you know, Shimano is going [00:52:00] to blow up and come up with something outrageously new because I don't see that happening. Um, all the changes in components seem very like. Step by step minuscule steps like maybe we go to 13 at some point, but it's every it's not like every year It's not like phones getting updates every year.

Matt: It's like every four years. Yeah, 

Jake: that's a long time. Yeah Well, I mean, who do you guys think has made the biggest quantum leap in their? Engineering in their research and their development and their innovation in the last four or five years Sram Sram 

Matt: Yeah, probably. They're doing some really neat stuff with, you know, basically, if you think about it, they've got like a computer system now with a hammerhead crew.

Matt: They've got, you know, they've got shocks. They've got a whole ecosystem. They've got this whole system. You got dropper seatposts, like you just have a nice whole ecosystem that, They're kind of on the cusp of being able to like really put all of it together and be like, everything plays together and it realizes when you're on certain surfaces and can change and do all [00:53:00] this stuff.

Matt: It's like, there's some neat stuff that has a lot of potential is going to cost a lot, but it's got a lot of potential in the near future. So probably, you know, 

Jake: when we had, uh, Troy and Derek on Instagram talking about that. And you know, they're, they're, you know, streamlining the number of SKUs that they have, and they're making more things work together.

Jake: And you can just come up with like this, this approach to how you're going to build your bike, that's going to work well for you, both from a performance standpoint, as well as a budget standpoint, I just love that. How everything works so well together. And you can get parts from them too. It's great. It's true.

Jake: So, um, yeah. We're we're Schramm fans. Yeah. With Camping's return to the World Tour, will the brand return to prominence? No. Do you guys see it's that happening in the next, say, two to three years? No. No, no. Yeah, I don't, I would have to agree with you as well. Sorry. I mean, sorry. People that are, that are fans and, and, and not for nothing.

Jake: I mean, we've been around and I get approached by reps from all of the different brands all of the time. And it was like pulling teeth to get Shimano to call me back just to get [00:54:00] set up for the longest time. We finally got connected. And the person that we work with is nice, you know, seems nice, but I've still never met the person face to face with SRAM.

Jake: It's been just like over the top, like super customer service, super friendly, super easy to work with super help. And it was like, you couldn't ask for a better relationship there. And then Campagnolo, I've never heard a single word from them. And I finally did reach out to him and they've got a North American distributor.

Jake: That's not really them, but. They've never reached out to us, never knew anything about them, but you know, I had to, I had to kind of seek them out. So I, I would, I guess kind of give them a leg up. Cause they actually come back to me when we needed to get apart for somebody. But I, my point is, is if they want to return to, you know, being, you know, relevant, if you will, they've got to do a little bit more to make that connection with people.

Jake: Otherwise people just aren't going to care. Right. And they don't come on any bikes that I know of right now. I know that BMC had one of their team machines that came with a campy build that was like, Stupid expensive, you know, two, three, four years ago that nobody bought. And there was a time too, where we were getting the MV [00:55:00] mogs and the, they weren't, you could get them as a frame set, but you could get a complete bike.

Jake: But for some reason they were just selling it with the campy build on it. And, and then we couldn't get the frames and people wanted them. So we were ordering the bikes with the campy. And the first thing they were doing was stripping all the Campagnolo stuff off, selling it for a song on the, you know, the different marketplaces and putting whatever groups that they could find desired.

Jake: Yeah. So anyway, that's that. Any who, um, That's, uh, that's that. Anything else to say on that one? Moving right along. Moving right along. The next question. I would love to hear everybody's fueling strategy. What gels, bars, drink mixes, and supplements do you use? Do you have any different strategies for different rides?

Jake: How do you know what to use and when? That's a lot of questions in that. Trial 

Lance: and error. Yeah. Yeah. How many times have you crapped your shorts? Saved 

Matt: it. Saved our Disney G rating. Thank you, Disney sponsorship. Um, I like science sports stuff. I like it because it's more watery and it [00:56:00] basically, you don't have to like follow a gel with, you know, a drink of water or whatever.

Matt: Um, I think what's the Martin gel is very popular, very pricey, but very popular because of the way that you can basically put in more calories and not upset your stomach as much. It has weird texture, the gels. Yeah. Gels have, it's like melted jello. I feel like I can get over anything if it will make me perform better.

Matt: True. That's kind of my, my take on it. Um, yeah, uh, real food is, is not something to be scoffed at. Like, I think that, uh, there's real value in having real food, like a real banana or a burrito breakfast burrito. I love making like that stuff where you're like, yeah, you can kind of eat it on the go, but it's, and I've even done this in race situations where you're, you're racing.

Matt: You're like, it's just nice to have real food in your stomach and you're not doing it depends on the distance. If you're going long, long. Like I do really feel like real food is an option. If you're going [00:57:00] for something that's like, you know, if you're racing for two or three hours, gels are easier, faster, lighter weight to carry.

Matt: There's a lot of benefits to them. And then you can also put calories in your drink and then you can have like one bottle. With some sort of caloric drink that sits well with your stomach and one that's water so that you don't overdo the, the sugar, sugar, gut bomb, always something to avoid. 

Jake: I remember when I was training for doing the STP, it's 206 miles.

Jake: I used to, the running joke was Jake ran on 50 miles per burrito. That was what my fuel efficiency was. And then I would always take other little things like gels just in case, but. To your point, having that solid food to be able to put that in you, it was just such a nice thing. Your stomach didn't get upset.

Jake: It felt, like, it felt satisfying. I'm the complete opposite. 

Matt: Really? Are you, is it because, like, you don't want a full stomach feel? No, 

Lance: I just, I, I Because you throw up easy. I do throw up easy. What was it? Salsa or something? Is that what it was? Usually from overeating. 

Matt: But what was it that one time? It was like 

Lance: Salsa and then there was salsa.

Lance: Salsa and it was, you have a [00:58:00] poster. Was Rocket Red? Is that poster still in the bathroom? It's still in the bathroom. It's like 

Matt: the most beautiful poster. I don't know what the art style is, but it's like got this cyclist throwing up and it's something about salsa. It's so good. Yeah. Sun Valley Salsa Corporation.

Matt: Throw M Fuel. . . That's what I was, I assume that Dylan did that. Dylan did that. Oh yeah, because he's so good. Oh my gosh. We need to have that guy back on the podcast. Dylan, if you're listening, send. Send a text this morning. . Did you? 

Lance: Okay. Come join us. We need you. For, for training rides. I generally use, um, blocks and gels.

Lance: I like the cliff blocks. Um, those 

Jake: are fantastic. Those are probably like probably one of my favorites just because they're like, it's almost like having a piece of candy. Yeah. It tastes 

Lance: good. They're easy to digest. They go down good. There's, I think a hundred and, there's a hundred calories per sleeve, or a hundred and twenty calories per sleeve, so I kind of know what I'm getting.

Lance: The 

Jake: only knock on those for me is that they stick to your teeth a little bit. Yes, they 

Lance: do. 

Jake: And so in a race situation, I don't want to deal with that. 

Lance: Um, in a race situation, I can't [00:59:00] take anything solid. I have learned that about myself. I just, I I Salsa. Just only salsa. Just only salsa. So I always use gels, and I usually use science and sport gels.

Lance: Do you? Okay. Um, but I've switched to their beta fuel. The science and sport beta fuel gels. They have a, they have a drink mix that's beta fuel because it has higher carbohydrate. Um, it has higher 

Matt: carbohydrates in it. Are they copying stuff that's happening from Martin? Is that the vibe that you're getting?

Matt: I don't know. We don't know, right? Like 

Lance: the science and sport gels that I've always really liked, they were only like 20 carbs per thing. Right. Whereas you want to be getting like 100 carbs or 60 per hour. Yeah, a hundred cups per hour is like minimum now in longer races. So, um, I use the, I use science and sport, either the, the cis gels or the beta fuel gels or the beta fuel mix.

Lance: The reason I 

Matt: think I liked the science and sports that they are bigger. Gel packets. They're more liquid. I mean, I think [01:00:00] that's, they're basically taking normal gel and adding liquid to it for the most part is what it seems like, but for me, that was just easier on my stomach and not taken that much also less calories.

Lance: Yeah. Messy to your fingers and pockets because it's a little more viscous. And so you don't have to chase it with water, which is 

Jake: isotonic suspension or something like that. And you're not trying to like squeeze stuff out of it, of the packet. You can actually like just squirt it in your mouth or suck it in.

Jake: And it just all, it goes down super easy. You don't have to wash it down with any fluids. And it's, for me, it's been really effective. It works extremely well about like getting into your system at the right pacing. Any, not having to chase any, anything fluid wise after that, not having a mess all of you.

Jake: It just, it works really well. I like it quite a bit. 

Matt: Interesting that we all like science and sport. They always have, you can always find some sort of deal from them where they have like a trial pack for, you know, six bucks or something. They 

Lance: look around for deals. They do have them on deals and especially the ones that are lower carbohydrates.

Lance: Those are [01:01:00] really on sale right now. Yeah, they're dumping those. Yeah, 

Matt: I probably have like some from 1984. They're in my closet. If you want them. I do want them. You want them? I go through dozens of those. I go through so many. They're so old. Yeah, they're probably still good. Instead of liquid coming out, it's just dust.

Jake: You know, my only knock on them is For whatever reason, sometimes they're just super hard to get in general. Like they just run out of supply and like, they'll be out forever. And we carry them at the lab and we're like, Hey, when are these going to be made and everybody else is wanting the same thing and you get people hitting you up, where is this stuff?

Jake: So that's the only knock on them. Otherwise, I think they're a great product. You like them. Yep. Cool. Any other questions or anything else to that question that you guys want to speak to? 

Lance: I do like bars on training rides too. I prefer the scratch bars. Scratch makes some great bars and piggy bars are actually very delicious.

Lance: So that's the solid food I'll eat on training rides. 

Matt (2): [01:02:00] Any 

Jake: other supplements that you guys use? Crack cocaine. There you go. I thought, Oh, my bad. I do like the, the rocket red, just to kind of come back to that. I just had a great conversation with one of our teammates, um, the canvas phantom about rocket red, and he got a bag and I told him like, Hey, just be fully aware that when you take this stuff, there's a good chance that you're going to feel like a tingling sensation around like your face and your lips and whatnot.

Jake: And it's just, I get it in my fingers too. The dilation tingle, but that stuff works extremely well. And I liked that quite a bit. Um, Do you, what drink mixes do you use again? I use scratch. Scratch exclusively? Yeah. Okay. I use that for shorter rides and longer rides. Until I've switched to beta fuel. Gotcha.

Jake: Yeah. And then I, I do like the tailwind stuff. I think that they make some good stuff too. My stomach does well with it and it's got more calories to it. So for the longer rides, I kind of like that as well. That's good stuff. Another thought or another mention there that wind is good. Cool. All right. Well you guys wanna move on to the next question?

Jake: Moving on. Move 

Lance: on. . A lot of questions. We're an hour in already. Yeah. Well this 

Jake: will be the, I think this is the last one. [01:03:00] It is. I love the podcast. Well, thank you. We appreciate it. We love you too. Um, I hate you. . . All right. The question pretty much is, um, how is AI transforming UAE, the race team in its complete dominance?

Jake: Um. And they're saying it's complete dominance of the 2025 season. They haven't really started the 2025 season yet, but they definitely did have a complete dominance in 2024. And I assume that it's going to be a lot more of the same, if not more, in 2025. 

Matt: You know, what's interesting is this, we talked about this prior to the podcast, but like AI is moving so quickly that it's interesting because what, What I find neat about this is that the cycling season, because AI is moving so quickly and we expect AI to be being used as any tool would, right?

Matt: Like everyone's going to use the tools to their advantage, but like comparing seasons, it's moving so quickly. 2023, nothing right. 2024, maybe some teams were experimenting. 2025, I think every team's going to be using AI. To [01:04:00] do something. Quite a bit. Quite a bit. Uh, there was a recent article from, what was it?

Matt: It was on, 

Lance: it was on Velo News. Velo News? Written by Jim Cotton. It, it, Inside the Artificial Intelligence Arms Race that will reshape elite racing and training. The craziest thing is that, that Team UAE has been using the supercomputer to, to crunch and analyze data and using AI to help give race strategy.

Lance: So not just training plans, what works, what doesn't. But to actually take all this other data that they can crunch and give better race, like race strategy. So like power, heart rate data, cadence data, your HRV numbers, your sleep scores, your body mass, um, the, how bodies, um, process sodium, what carbohydrates work compared to sodium, the humidity, the wind speed, the air pressure of a certain course, what the, what the, what an athlete's CDA [01:05:00] is.

Lance: They're. Their aero efficiency, what the, what the tire pressure is. I mean, you can look at a lot of data and if, and if that data is accurate. public, they can actually apply that to their main competitors as well and give an idea of when a certain athlete might attack. And if he does attack, how long will he be able to hold that?

Lance: And my thought is that even even like team directors in the team car as the race is happening. Oh, Thomas to get just attacked. Um, well, I know that Thomas against, you know, millimoles per milliliter of. of Lactate at 350 watts will only last for this many hours. So he's going to crack in another, you know, 40 minutes.

Lance: You know, they may know something like that, 

Matt: you know, would be really interesting. Just to piggyback on that. And I know this would be really difficult, but I bet you, we will start to see stuff like this, this summer where like, [01:06:00] GC contenders, where we're tracking what like, let's say Lance is GC contender.

Matt: And I'm part of the UAE team. I'm in the, I'm in the, whatever the, the cars or whatever, or I'm even watching it on television. I'm going to start taking note of when you take in calories so I can feed that into the system. Right? So you're looking at your competition, how many calories they're taking in?

Matt: Cause you can probably estimate what they're drinking and try to get an idea of how many calories are taken. If they mess up, then you might be able to say like radio in like, Hey, we think Lance is in a caloric, in the next 30 minutes or whatever, we should attack, we should attack. And what I think is, is, is what I would do.

Matt: And I'm not a race director by any means, but like, I would a hundred percent have a, an AI model that is basically. mimicking what my competition should be doing, right? So it's like, all right, this company, you know, this team has 10 guys. I want profiles on every single one of these guys, when they like to attack, when they like [01:07:00] to push hard, what their team strategies are, all of that stuff can be fed into like a custom GPT.

Matt: And I don't think this is just UAE by any means. This is every single team that should be doing this. Like, it would be stupid not to do this, right? Like, they would be doing a disservice to their, to the people that are funding these teams if they're not doing it. Because this stuff isn't that expensive.

Matt: Like, Jake and I both use, you know, uh, OpenAI all the time for, you know, For work stuff. And it's like you, I mean, it's like 20 bucks a month, right? These teams should be able to do this without a super computer for a lot of this stuff. They should be able to do it with 20 a month. I mean, you can buy custom hardware and definitely have like your own custom GPT running locally, which might be fun.

Matt: Faster, but I mean, I don't know. It's it's seems very reasonable that these companies are going to be using AI exhaustively in 2025. 

Lance: So the team cars, they're going to have a driver, a team director, a mechanic, and a do it on a computer. 

EPO Chainmail: I know. Plugging 

Lance: in, [01:08:00] plugging in info while they're following the race.

Lance: And well, I'm 

Matt: wondering if you could automate that, right? Like, cause. Because plugging it on the computer, having a guy doing that would be a pain, but if we have cameras on the GCs can, cause really what you want to do is you want to take in a lot of data like, Oh, this person took a drink of their water.

Matt: Like that would be, that'd be a lot 

Lance: to plus wind direction and wind speed and air temperature and air humidity and, and. What bikes they're on. And we know that brand of bike does isn't quite, I do. Oh my God. 

Jake: Another layer deep. Imagine this scenario. So let's say that that's what UA is doing. Then you got Visma on the other side.

Jake: What countermeasures can we take to make them think that they're putting in the right data so that they think that they have an idea of what we're going to do, but we're actually going to give them a little ropa dopa. Well, you know, even 

Matt: better, even better would be leaking your numbers. And having them be wrong, like post it to Strava or whatever it is and be like, Oh, this is all fake [01:09:00] data that we just made up and be like, yeah, I mean, you probably look at it and be like, you didn't push this hard on this, you know, whatever it is or whatever.

Matt: Or like, if you could even like really fake data of you bonking somewhere like that, people would be like, Oh, this data, what is, and they've, and then you got to think other teammates, other teams are probably like, okay, we can't trust this data. I don't know, right? 

Jake: So let me ask you guys a question though.

Jake: I can definitely get behind doing this in a training side of thing, on the training side of things. I think it's fantastic to get to know yourself, to make sure that you're optimizing yourself and giving yourself every possible advantage. Do you like this being used in an actual race? 

Matt: Well, you and I have talked about this a ton of times on this podcast where it's like, How come these companies aren't broadcasting this power data?

Matt: How fun would it be to watch like these people hold whatever it is, 500 Watts for, you know, when they crank up this hill and you're like, how is he still, still doing this? How is this possible? Like the numbers are attractive to us because we all have our own power meters. So [01:10:00] we've all wanted that. It's even now, as we talk about like, Teamed using it as a competitive advantage.

Matt: It makes less and less sense that that data would ever come out So, I don't know. I think that I think it's I just think it's a double edged sword Right where it's like 

Jake: you're losing the organic feel of a bike race though, because you've made it so like precise through using technology and in communication and all of the things it's like you're But this is 

Matt: the same argument people have had forever.

Matt: Chris Froome staring at his stim, right? Yeah. And is that real bike racing? And we've all kind of, I don't know. I thought we, I kind of felt like our podcast came to the conclusion that like, people should ride to power. They shouldn't have to like, intuit everything. And I also feel like it's more fun to watch the athletes that do it.

Matt: That are a little bit more, I don't know, less robotic. Like, we enjoy watching certain athletes that, you know, that take off or tell, tell the entire field that they're going to take off at this time and then they do it. Like, we love watching that stuff, [01:11:00] but I 

Jake: mean, I personally don't have a problem with them having every sensor on the sun.

Jake: Available to them, to, to them on the bike to, to manage them stuff. But I would love nothing more than to see them take the race radios away. I mean, it would be kind of cool to have maybe like, I don't know, a couple of people just so that there's a safety component in there. If like, there's something in the road up there, but the cars could slow them down.

Jake: They could have a vehicle come up. You get 

Lance: the world champs. It was only the. Team captains who had radios and 

Jake: that just makes for a little bit more parody in the racing. I think that that's great, but let them have all that data, but let's not, let's not go so far into this to where that takes off. Yeah.

Lance: It's just like, I don't know. You would think that it would make more athletes be much more cautious with their information. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with not sharing things. I just looked up on Strava to see, cause I follow both Jonas and Todd Uh, Tade hasn't, um, published a ride since December 31st. He probably hasn't been 

Matt: riding.

Matt: He probably 

Lance: hasn't! [01:12:00] And Jonas He probably forgot how to bike, actually. He might not be able he might not be able to bike. 

Matt: Jonas hasn't put a ride on Strava since 2021. So they've just like Jonas is I thought I saw him bike in a race, one of those tours. I thought I saw him bike, but I must have been mistaken.

Matt: If it wasn't on Strava, it didn't happen. It wasn't on Strava, so it must not 

Jake: have happened. Hmm. And Another thing, um, which is actually kind of a cool thing. Like if you think about all of this information that they're able to gather and then needing to get even more of that stuff and having it be even more precise, that's what's gonna push innovation with respect to the bike computers and the sensors that we get to have.

Jake: So hopefully you start to see some pretty cool stuff coming out on the, you know. You know, the accessory side of things for us to be able to use. We already have a lot of great stuff, but if AI is able to use all of this information, think about having AI built into your, your bike computer and it's pulling in all of the information.

Jake: And yes, you know, what if you've got like a sweat meter and a, like a, I want my computer to 

Lance: tell me you've got 10 [01:13:00] minutes left of glycogen at this power. Yeah. Yeah. I want it to tell me that. So 

Jake: that would be pretty cool for me as a cyclist, just because you love to nerd out on that stuff. But is that something you want to see a rider have access to in a bike race on the grand stage so that they can kind of do their thing?

Jake: I, I, I think I'd be a little bit more okay with that. 

Matt: You're turning into an old man purist where you're like, 

EPO Chainmail: take, take the computers away. Right? 

Matt: No, I, I don't know. I know what you mean. I think that, um, I think that we're going to get to a place where we potentially have some, um, I mean, remember like they've, they've made some of the continuous glucose monitors illegal.

Matt: For, for now, I mean, that stuff being fed into your computer and stuff like that is definitely advantage in a race situation. These people are all going to train a certain way, but they might not be allowed to, to race that way. So I don't know, I think that it's, it's going to depend on who's in the rules committee and who decides what to do.

Matt: I [01:14:00] just 

Jake: don't want to race to be boiled down to who's got the best, uh, GPT or who's got the best, uh, algorithm to, you know, do this, I, you know, the 

Lance: athletes. Still have to perform. 

Matt: Yeah, but they still have to turn into fricking cyborgs at that point. Yeah. But do you really, I don't know, because you got to imagine that if you're on the radio and this is like the thick of the race, where it's like Mont Ventoux and someone just like cracked up the road, who's a GC leader and you're gunning them down, do you think the person on the radio is not going to be yelling in your ear?

Matt: Go, go, go. Like, I mean, that's not going to change and it hasn't changed for 20 years. Right. Right. That is still our sport. That is still critical and I don't think it has anything to do with the numbers, right? It's just 

Lance: there will still be the athlete. Who thinks they can push beyond the numbers or push beyond what they're physically capable of science wise.

Lance: Whatever AI tells them. Yeah, they tells me I can only do this for 30 seconds. Well, watch this mother scratcher. I'm going to do it for 90, you know? [01:15:00] Yeah. So that could skew numbers. 

Jake: I mean, there's a Pierce component inside of me that doesn't want to see that happen. However, I would be. Super happy to go through this whole race season and see a fantastic race season while they're using all this information and have it be something like, all right, they proved me wrong.

Jake: So I guess at the end of the day for me, please prove me wrong. Please make sure that there's still some parody here. I just don't want this to be. You know, like, all right, where's the next today? Where's the next Jonas? And we're just going to have these teams full of these, like Tata, you know, cyborgs that are going to be, you know, just like little robots.

Jake: Marching or cycling or pebbling, that are going to be driven by like what, what chat GPT is telling them to do. What, you know, it's going to be 

Matt: interesting. I don't think we'll see this, this season, but I think we'll see it probably the season after that. Some sort of AI co announcer speaker type person.

Matt: So you have a, you know, like basically an AI co host or whatever. And so it's like, well, you know, how, how do you think [01:16:00] Todd is going to do on this stage? And while this stage fits him very well, because there's a hill that comes in, you know, about three fourths through the ride where this is, you know, He said on Twitter three years ago that, you know, that he likes this hill or whatever it is like these co hosts would probably have a very strong background information on every writer.

Matt: Right. And so they could give you some valuable insight into, and it might as well have them be a co host as opposed to just being like, You know, on your laptop or whatever. I imagine that the co host might have laptops with a lot of information on them as they're going through and they're talking through these races.

Matt: They have to kill a lot of time. They have to kill. They have to talk for a long time. So, 

Lance: but it would be interesting because you don't know a lot of the backstories or stories of certain athletes who are on certain teams and, and, All that information's out there, so. 

Matt: And it'd be interesting, too, because like, you also don't know where the, like, these announcers, like, all of us, we think, like, oh, the announcers are there and they're switching the cameras.

Matt: No, they're not. They're getting a feed, basically the same feed that we [01:17:00] get. And they're trying to react to it in real time. Yeah, and so, so if it, if they put the camera on Lance Hepler and they're like, who's this old man that's riding around in an orange suit? They're like, so they keep the camera on you for 20 minutes, and these announcers basically are like, Okay, we have to talk about this for 20 minutes.

Matt: Like, what the hell are we going to say? It would be very interesting to be, to have some sort of AI component to that. 

Jake: Is Visma and Lisa bike still using their little van, the remote van? That's they weren't allowed to remember. And that was like the story that they had to park it off route. But are they still trying to employ that and use it to some degree?

Jake: And is that something, I mean, I could definitely see that being a place where they would start to manage all of this kind of stuff. I 

Matt: wonder though, if. All these, these companies have some like, you know, their IT department, wherever it is, like mobile van or whatever. And if that wasn't just more of like a PR stunt, I don't know, maybe it got, it got people to write articles about their, about their, their team.

Matt: Gotcha. 

Jake: Well, here's a compromise. Mission accomplished. [01:18:00] I would be okay with them doing all of this if they made all of the writers. You know, publicly disclose all of their information, stuff that we could actually see in the actual ride. Like, all right, if you're going to use all this stuff, then we get to see what you're actually putting out, what your numbers are, what's your heart rate, what's your power numbers, you know, everything that they're, they're looking at, we should be able to see that.

Matt: The riders, I think we'll fight that tooth and nail. They will not let that happen. Now more than ever because they know how valuable that information is and how it can be used against them. And I think it was harder two, three years ago, four, definitely four or five years ago to use that information against these writers.

Matt: And now it's not going to be that hard. Like, it's just gonna be like, Oh, just plug that into the, into the AI system. It's like, yeah. So I think that'll never happen at this point. Sad. Cause I would love to see it. 

Jake: I mean, if, if, They're able to use all this stuff at a minimum. Don't you think that the UCI should have access to it so that they can start looking at it and use their own GPTs to say, Hey, that is cheating, cheating.

Jake: And that, or that's not [01:19:00] humanly possible. Let's take a further, deeper look into this. 

Matt: My gut feeling is that any sort of. Old organization, the UCI style are going to be the slowest to adapt to technology changes. Whereas the, the teams that are like money's on the line here and our sponsorship deals are on the line and we're in thick competition will be the first to adapt to the technology.

Matt: So my guess is that. You see I'll get around to it eventually maybe like it just depends on if there's someone forward thinking that's in that organization That's like like we got to be using AI for drug detection You know like the like out of season competitions when are we gonna schedule these all that should be done by AI systems, right?

Matt: Like well this, you know, we tested him on a Thursday night last time and he wasn't there So right like I don't I don't know. They they're It's silly not to use it, but I'm guessing that UCI is, is slow on the uptake. How will you 

Jake: guys be using all this information? Not [01:20:00] for yourself. You know, what'd be 

Matt: interesting is, is as we start to look towards this summer, like AI, it's gonna, I mean, this, the, we talked about this in the beginning, like every three months it's changing so fast.

Matt: So by this summer, we could be doing stuff like having an AI co host as we talk about the tour. Like as we, we talked about doing like, Sitting here, um, we're, there's like a TV in the background. We've done this in the past where we sit here and we kind of talk about the race as it's happening. We have fun doing that.

Matt: It's super enjoyable, but it would be fun to be like, okay, well, let's bring in more AI information as we do that. So we could do that. 

Jake: Or is that already happening? 

Matt: Are you listening to us? Our computer's down right now. Our computer's down right now. That's why there's no Ian, right? Oh, Ian's Ian's computer is failed.

Matt: Yes. 

Jake: It's amazing how far this has come. And we talked about a bunch of stuff before the podcast and I don't want to get into it again here, but it just kind of blows your mind and the things that can be done with it right now is amazing. And just to think about how much of [01:21:00] this stuff wasn't even happening six months ago, blows your mind, like what's going to be happening by the end of the year, even by the start of the tour.

Jake: I mean, there's going to be so much stuff that's going to change between now and then. So 

Matt: that's wild. I think to me to think like, okay, well, that's the 2025 tour. 2026 tour is like, Oh. Yeah. It's just totally odd. I mean, we can't even predict that far ahead. It's so ridiculous. 

Jake: Yeah. If you've got your head in the sand and you're listening to this, if you've got your head in the sand with this whole AI thing and you really have no idea what's going on, it would behoove you to take a few minutes and go jump on the, the YouTubes or whatnot and just kind of go see what the latest and greatest is.

Jake: See what's happened in the last, like, you know, just this year. I think it's 2025. I mean, if you're 

Matt: listening to this and you're like, these guys are overhyped on AI. I think that's fair. I think that's a fair assessment. And I totally get you. And maybe we are, but maybe we're not. So it's probably worth checking out.

Jake: Oh, this is playing around with this stuff. This is the biggest thing that's going to happen to humanity ever. Once it's, I'm not saying sad and dumb, but just give it a little bit more time, another year or two, and it'll be the biggest 

Matt: thing that I [01:22:00] think the tech is moving quickly. I think human. Human adoption of the tech will take just as long as it takes.

Matt: It usually takes a long time for that sort of stuff. Sure. So, I, I always think like, I'm excited about it, but I am like, you and I are like one of, you know, two, two of like a thou, 2000 people. Sure. Like a lot of people are not gonna care about this stuff for a long time. That's okay. 

Jake: Industrial Revolution, the internet ai.

Jake: Yeah. I, I mean, and they have like. grown on top of each other exponentially. And we're getting ready to go into the next phase of something that's going to be, but think about it. Like the, 

Matt: the internet didn't like come and disrupt everything all at once. It took a long, long time. Did the industrial 

Jake: revolution, right?

Jake: They all took, but they're just getting faster and more refined and they're making a bigger impact in a shorter period of time. So if you look at All of those things. It's just, I still think 

Matt: of this. There's a lot of last miles. There's a lot of last miles where it's like, finally these companies started to get affected by the internet.

Matt: Or if you're in, and maybe your job doesn't, hasn't, you know, the [01:23:00] internet doesn't affect your job. Like, you know, with dentistry or whatever, it's probably took a long time for dentistry to be affected by the internet access and all this stuff. It just takes time for a lot of these. established industries to switch over, AI will be similar.

Matt: It'll take a while, but it'll get there. 

Jake: Cool. Lance, any final parting thoughts on the whole AI thing? I'm, I'm flabbergasted by it. 

Lance: Flabbergasted. 

Jake: It spins your mind. Once you start digging into it and start going down some rabbit holes, you're like, Holy crap. I didn't know that you could do that. And I didn't know that this is what you're going to be able to do.

Jake: And, and just what's changed in a short period of time. It's 

Lance: amazing. My training program is AI based. I use coach cat, uh, formerly fast cat. It's a product of Frank Overton. Who's been, uh, in it basically downloaded Frank Overton's brain into AI and created a custom GPT. That answers all your questions specifically related to your [01:24:00] training.

Lance: And it gives you, like if, it gives you alternatives every day if you want to change things. And it does it instantly. And it, it also evaluates your ride properly at the end of every ride. Unlike the AI that is on Strava, which is bull crap. And you can't turn it off, go find a YouTube video. You can turn it off?

Lance: You can turn it off. Oh, I hate that thing. There's a way to turn it off. I've turned mine off so I don't see it anymore. 

Jake: I saw something in my feed about that. About how they've like revamped it or they've made it a little bit better, but I didn't really look into see what it was. Did you by chance see that?

Jake: Or did you have it completely turned off? I have no idea. Turned off your 

Matt: mobile phone too, where it just says like, you could see the AI insights into this. I just want to get rid of some stuff. All right. Yeah. Enough complaining. 

Jake: Amazing though. Um, it's, it's fun. Do you guys, Oh, you know what? The other thing is we did a podcast on this two years ago.

Jake: We did. It was almost two years ago. It was like on January 9th. 

Lance: We plugged in stuff and asked it questions. Oh yeah. We're 

Matt: plugging in training. It was like, give us a training plan for the week and it did okay. [01:25:00] Yeah. So we 

Jake: literally put this on January 9th, 2023. It might be worth going back and listening to that just to kind of figure out like what our thoughts were then and how much things have changed to now.

Jake: So it's been, A lot in terms of what's changed and for the most part, it's pretty good stuff. I'm pretty bullish on the whole thing. Yeah. Agreed. Anyway, if you want to go listen to that one, it was podcast 256. 256. Cool. What podcast is this? Uh, 355. Okay. Holy cow. We're getting there. Getting there. Yep. This year we'll be.

Jake: Well, it'll probably be later this year. We'd be at, um, 400. We've got to do a party. Yeah. Party 400 party. Yeah. Good times. Cool. All right. Um, I think that's it. I don't want to really go into that too much more. Do you, did we answer their question about the AI seven? Are they going to have another domination?

Jake: But we spent a lot of time talking. All right, cool. All right. Let's do one last 

Matt: thing. Matt, I always go first. There's no question. Uh, what did I post last week? I think [01:26:00] I posted the Polar Vantage M3. It's a watch you guys don't care about that much because you guys are happy with your watches. And honestly, it was kind of like a ho hum watch.

Matt: It's fine. I think it's probably one of Polar's best options, but I've been worried about Polar for a while because they'll They'll come up with a watch that's got some nice stuff, like an AMOLED screen, got some mapping that's not as good as Garmin's, the battery life not quite as good as Garmin's, and then it's like, we're gonna charge you 600 bucks for that, and we're like, that's not competitive, and so, even their like rugged, do everything kind of watch, it, it, it's not what it needs to be, like those things need to have decent battery lives, and anyway, the point is, um, It's a watch and I made a video about it.

Matt: It's the first, it's one of the first videos that I've done where I put in like a two minute ad, like a ad read as my, like as my own. Oh yeah, yeah. So that maybe that's the most interesting part about this video. Can I ask who the ad was for? Yeah, it was for this like, um, data protection company. And it [01:27:00] was, it's basically, uh, it's, it's kind of cool.

Matt: Cause they'll monitor your credit scores, they'll monitor all of your stuff and They'll like, they'll go look for you right now. They'll do. Yeah, exactly. Uh, I won't say their name because they didn't pay me to sit for this part, but, uh, they, you know, like if you have, if they have your email address, they'll go and they'll find your email address and pull it out of all the spam stuff and they'd have all this like child protection, like stuff.

Matt: It's like, it's pretty cool. That's cool. Like, so you can have like the family plan and like have all of these, you know, yeah. Internet security sure kids. So it's a really cool company, which is one of the reasons I agreed to do it and You know, they pay me for an ad read and it's kind of one of the first times I've done something like that We're to an integrated ad piece some people didn't like the fact that I did that because it was like a When they come there to read to learn about the polar watch and they're stuck for two and a half minutes watching this like I talk about security Did you go look at the analytics on the back end of mm-hmm

Matt: To see if there's a drop off? I can do 

Jake: that 

Matt: now. 

Jake: Will it show you if people fast forward through stuff? Yeah. Does it show that? 

Matt: I don't, [01:28:00] it kind of, I think so. I think it maybe it'll show like a little dip or something like that. That's, yeah, you might, that's what I do time. Yeah. I mean, I, every time somebody does 

Lance: a, an in video ad, I just fast forward what I, 

Matt: what I did was I tried to put like a progress bar.

Matt: Have you seen those before? Other creators will like, anyway, so, oh, so you know how long I put a progress bar in front of the, the ad so you can. If you see the, you know, skip ahead and if you see the progress bar going halfway, then you know, like skip ahead some more. So I'm, if I do more ads, then that's the plan is to try to add a, maybe I'll try and make the progress bar a little bit more clear because it's really tiny on mine anyway.

Matt: So I'll look at the stats and see if there's some major issues with, um, drop off, but it's not, I mean, I put it in a video. Knowing that the video wasn't going to do that great anyway, so I don't know. That's good. Cool. Gotta make some money. Good job, Matt. Gotta, gotta make money around here, people. Yeah.

Lance: Yeah. Yeah, um, if you want to see footage of my Tucson shootout, [01:29:00] or the Mount Lemon ride, or my mountain bike race, um, I've been posting videos too. So it's all on my YouTube page. Lance 

Jake: will be coming up with a new name for that, or at least a custom URL, if you will. 

Lance: Actually, give us some ideas of what you think, uh, my, uh, YouTube name should be.

Lance: I think it 

Matt: should be your name. Yeah. Just Lance Heppler. Yeah, I think it should be YouTube. Lance freaking heppler youtube.com/lance heppler. Probably. I think you should do . That way people can, can, they're searching for that. They can find you. So I'm doing that. Oh. Oh. How about hermit? You can see the dip.

Matt: Dip in the advertising. Can you see that? Can you see that? Like, um, oh yeah. I wish I could zoom in on that. Yeah. Yeah, I can see perfectly good. You can see the ad. Skip , everybody skips it. That, or not everybody. I feel like that's perfectly, I'm perfectly cool with that. Yeah, that's as long as you're getting paid, right?

Matt: That's good. 

Lance: Um, also I, yeah, I've already mentioned it, but, uh, I'm flying to Tenerife on Friday. I'm going to be there for seven days. I'm meeting Ian over there. So he went to visit his mom before he goes [01:30:00] down to Tenerife and we have another teammate, Chris Surratt, who's also coming with us. So there'll be three of us, uh, riding in the sunshine on, uh, in the Canary Islands next week.

Lance: So 

Jake: that's the plan. Going back to your YouTube channel stuff. Do you have. You've kind of already said that you want to spend less than an hour working on it a day. I'm trying to do. Okay. Do you have any plans of what you want to do? Or do you have any like, any ideas of like where it's going to go? Or are you just kind of seeing where it blows you?

Jake: Nope. 

Lance: I'm just seeing where it blows me. Okay. I want it. I, I want it to see where I think it's going to be best use of my time. Just doing it every day. Nope. No, I'm not going to be able to do that for the next. five years. There's no way I'm going to, you know, it's not that it takes that much time, but it is it's effort to, it's effort to film something or film things every day, gather the clips, download the clips, try to organize them into some kind of story with, that's, you know, four to 10 minutes long and then make something that is okay that I'm trying to do that like really quickly.

Lance: So let me ask 

Matt: you [01:31:00] this. Could you do once a week where you have on your Sundays, you chill out and you do your edits? Would that be? More maintainable. 

Lance: I don't, I don't chill out on Sunday 

Matt: anymore. 

Lance: That's the shootout. I don't know. Maybe it becomes something where, you know, if it's an interesting ride, then I'll do it.

Lance: Or maybe on your down 

Jake: day, you just capture some other information and, or whatever. You just, you've got like a bunch of stories that you can tell. You can, and you're capturing all kinds of video. Maybe you can edit some on Sundays and just, you know, schedule them to release on certain days throughout the week so that you create a little bit more freedom in your schedule.

Jake: And you know that you're like, I, if I'm going to do seven days, I've already taken care of three or four of them. And then I just have to worry about these other ones. Maybe some along those lines. 

Matt: I will say that if you've got this rhythm of knocking them out in the day, like you should stick with it.

Matt: Cause people love like the more content you can post the better. 

Lance: I'm going to do it for a while. Do it for a while. I'm going to do it for a while and see how it goes. That's awesome. I think doing. I'm definitely going to catch more video of every race I do. And [01:32:00] I will be taking cameras on every race that I do from now on.

Lance: So that's fun. I, I, I really enjoyed that. Plus it gives me something else to kind of try to build and grow and like focus on because I'm, I'm not going to be winning all these races this year. There's no chance of that just because. Everything's gonna be faster. So trying to catch video while I'm doing cool stuff.

Lance: Yeah, that would be fun. 

Jake: Yeah, that should be cool. Um, yeah, 

Matt: I'm pretty, I'm pretty, I'm pretty stoked about your po your YouTube channel. Thank you. You're your biggest fan. 

Jake: Go follow Lance. This goal is to get to a thousand subscribers. That'd be great. Monetize a chance. 

Lance: I need, I need a thousand to monetize.

Lance: And 

Jake: you 

Lance: just got 

Jake: this thing off and running. About how many do you have now? A hundred and something. 

Lance: Uh, 140 subscribers. And I started with. 20. Okay. So I picked up a few. That's pretty fast. We'll be checking in 

Jake: on that to see how quickly it grows up. So cool. All right. 

Lance: My, uh, my screen watch time is up 185, 000 percent in the last 28 

Jake: days.

Jake: Not bad. Amount of watch time that people are spending watching videos. That's [01:33:00] awesome. Cool. All right. My one last thing is maybe you want to sign up for this too, Lance. Who knows? But, um, We've got this new thing that we're doing with the Dow cycling lab, because there's a bunch of cool cyclists out there who we want to support.

Jake: And we're going to have a little affiliate program that's going to be built into our website. And we're looking for some people that like to put out content, social media stuff, or YouTube videos and whatnot. And if you want to, um, maybe get hooked up with some different products that we carry and whatnot.

Jake: Um, you know, once we get you connected, you can actually go and, um, you know, start putting stuff out there. And if people buy stuff based on your recommendations, you can get a little bit of a kickback there, and that can be in the way of like just paying you out, or it can be in the way of shop credit and all these kinds of fun things.

Jake: So it should be fun. Very cool. Yeah. So if anybody's interested in that, feel free to reach out to us, the. Um, the, the actual, I guess, software program that's going to manage that will be live on our website this week. And we've already got a couple of people signed up for it, which is pretty cool. Kind of excited [01:34:00] about that.

Jake: Yeah. Anyhow, it should be, should be fun. Um, I don't think I have anything else though. And I think, uh, you guys probably want to get out of here cause you got other things to do and I got stuff to do. It's Martin Luther King day and going to go spend some time with the family cause didn't have to work today.

Jake: So that should be fun. Perfect. Cool. Matt, you done? Done. Cool. I'm done. Lance is done. I'm done. We're out of here. We will be back next week with another one of these. And until then, bye for now.