Dialed Podcast 358 - Road Racing in AZ | Training Camp | Bike Tech You Need to Know

After a brief hiatus, the Dialed Podcast team is back and shaking off the cobwebs. Jake, Matt, Sir Ian, and Lance finally reunite to talk all things cycling – from racing in the Arizona heat to why tubes might finally be extinct. If you love good banter, insightful race breakdowns, and a sprinkle of chaos, this episode is for you.

Fit, Healthy & Happy Podcast
Welcome to the Fit, Healthy and Happy Podcast hosted by Josh and Kyle from Colossus...

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 2:20 Backpedal
• 11:01 [Ad] Fit, Healthy & Happy Podcast
• 11:41 (Cont.) Backpedal
• 31:08 Leadout News
• 32:01 EPO Chain Mail
• 32:49 AI Cycling Coach?
• 41:56 Old school tech worth keeping?
• 46:09 How to prep for warm weather riding
• 50:01 New tubeless tire sealant - Death of tubes?
• 54:47 Training camp cost and can it be done on a budget?
• 1:00:28 2025 Strade Bianche
• 1:04:17 What pro cyclists look good this spring?
• 1:06:28 What can we learn from road racing in Arizona?
• 1:18:09 One last thing...

Transcript

358 Dialed Podcast

Jake: [00:00:00] Does this thing still work? Do we know how to do this still? No. All right, here we go. 

Intro: Shut up and sit down.

Intro: You are listening to The Dialed Podcast with Matt Lee Graham. Sir Ian Gibson. Lance Hapler. And Jake Von Doering. Thank you for your time and enjoy the show. That was a little soft. I'll do better next week. You want to ride my bicycle? You want 

Intro: to ride my bike? Bloody hell have you been? Toilet. Toilet? What do you mean toilet?

Jake: Hi and welcome back to the Dialed Podcast. I am Jake von Duering and I'm here with, uh, let's leave that guy for last. I'm here with Matt LeGrand.

Matt: What's up ladies and gentlemen of the [00:01:00] internet? You. Guys, look. Cellular tastic today. Cellular tastic, not FaceTime fantastic, just cellular fantastic. 

Jake: Nice. Okay. The, uh, big spoon to his left, Mr.

Jake: Ian Gibson, err Sir Ian Gibson. I'm sorry about that. 

Ian: Come on, man. He's getting rusty. I forgot how to do this. I'm 

Jake: sorry. 

Ian: Back from vacation. 

Jake: There you go. And last but not least. The one and only Lance friggin Heppler. What's up, man? 

Lance: Lance, Lance friggin Heppler. I am coming at you over the cellular airwaves from, uh, I don't know where the hell I am, Arizona.

Matt: Somewhere in Arizona. I don't know 

Lance: where the hell I am, Arizona. Somewhere in Arizona. 

Jake: Nice. Hey, um, we got a lot of frickin back pedaling to do, but before we do that, I'm sorry that it's been, what, two, three weeks since we've put out a podcast? 

Matt: Couple weeks. Couple of weeks, not a big deal. 

Jake: Yeah. [00:02:00] These guys have been out playing bikes all over the world and Matt's been busy and I've been busy and not for nothing.

Jake: It feels like it was five minutes to me. I know it's literally does. But then I'm looking over here at Ian's hand across the table for me. And he looks like he's about 14 shades darker than the last time I saw him. Yeah. 

Matt: You're looking like you've been, yeah, he's all, he's 

Jake: all veiny and tan and looking all svelte.

Jake: Oh, geez. Look at you, man. Anyway, let's do some back pedal. Matt. I went out on 

Matt: the road a couple times. I went once just, I don't remember. Like, we've had some decent weather, actually. It's actually nice right now. We should all be biking instead of podcasting, but we can't miss another week of podcasts. But yeah, I've been out a couple times.

Matt: Nothing crazy. Um, been feeling decent. I'm still on my dialed 100. You are. Whatever. I don't know how many days we are. We're getting close to 70, I think. 

Ian: You're on the dial 100, but you're not tracking your days. No. So it could be the dial 

Matt: No, no, no. I mean, I know I have 

Ian: It could be dial 97 or the dial 106.

Ian: It could be 145. 

Matt: Yeah, I, I, um, I know I'm biking every day. I just don't know how many days it's [00:03:00] been since whatever started. You know, sometimes I'll see someone else on, uh, my feed who's also doing the dial 100 and I'll be like, that's what day it is. That's how I know. So, thank you all who have been doing it.

Matt: Keep posting those things. Keep posting in your feed so that I can keep track of when it is and which day it is. Have you written it today? What? I have not ridden yet today. 

Jake: When you do your ride today, it'll be ride number 65. Okay, 

Matt: 65. Okay, we're getting there. We're getting there, people. Uh, other than that, I ran this morning, been swimming a little bit.

Matt: I was actually swimming a good bit, a little bit more than usual, like. Twice a week instead of once a week only because there's this there's a swim meet this weekend And then I realized that I would have to sign up for like USA swimming and all the stuff So I was like screw that I prefer running and and so in addition to biking every day I'm trying to like throw another sport in there But so that's that's swimming or running and I prefer running if I'm being honest But, um, yeah, it's, it's been fun.

Matt: Did 

Jake: you already put the buoys out? The buoys. So 

Matt: did they, 

Jake: did they [00:04:00] never get put away? 

Matt: So. Yes and no, there are, so I put out buoys basically from whenever we decided, it was like April through October, and that was the deal that I made with the city. Some other swimmers, who will go unnamed, decided that they want buoys out year round.

Matt: Not a deal with the city, right? Because like I, you know, I wanted to be on board and whatever with the rules, follow the rules. And so there are multiple buoys that are out there in Fallen Leaf Lake, which is the lake that's close by to us. There's some smaller buoys. The guys that put them out there call it like the winter buoys.

Matt: But the truth is, like, we're not supposed to have buoys out there year round. Oh, it's sanctioned, 

Jake: huh? 

Matt: Unsanctioned and they the funny thing is is they swim year round. I've seen him which is insane like One of the guys was telling me that he had to like Truck down there through the snow to get in the water and go swimming.

Matt: I was like, dude, that's commitment right there. Yeah, I Haven't swam open water since like [00:05:00] last summer which makes sense, but I only swim. Yeah Lance. 

Lance: That's called a, that's called a psychopath. That's what it is. Psychopath. It's called a psychopath. Yeah. 

Matt: But I, I'm kind of jealous if I'm honest. Like, cause it is, it's fun to swim open water.

Matt: And I think if you continue to gradually keep staying in the water or whatever, like you, your body does acclimate to the cold weather a little bit. I think if I were to try and do it now, I would. I would just die. 

Jake: My wife went out on New Year's Day and she did the polar plunge there following the lake and I'm like, yeah, no thanks.

Jake: You just get in and get out. That's a hard 

Matt: pass. 

Jake: Yeah, exactly. But still. 

Matt: It's not like you're swimming. 

Jake: Submerging yourself in frickin A cold water in January 1st. No thanks. Cold plunge, man. That's like a fitness 

Matt: trend. It's a health fitness trend. Everybody. 

Ian: I can relate. Lance, one day that. Hot tub was like 102.

Ian: It felt really cold. Oh, geez. You 

Matt: were suffering. You guys were suffering in the hot tub. Suffering, 

Jake: yeah. Ian, you want to backpedal for us? 

Ian: Um, how long have you got? 

Jake: Nah. [00:06:00] 

Ian: Highlights, baby, highlights. Yeah, let me, so. 

Lance: Top, 

Ian: top three rides. It's been three weeks, right? Uh, in brief, then Lance and I were both down in Arizona.

Ian: We'd just come off a massive training block, basically. Um, my, um. My CTL, chronic training load, uh, the other day was 119 and it was minus 75 on form. Like we've been hitting it. Every day, 20 days straight of hard riding. So, so 

Matt: did you have any lull between like your own personal gear up training camp in the actual training camp?

Matt: No, cause we 

Ian: just kept riding. Cause that's, that's pretty much all we had to do. 

Jake: So you guys, Tenerife. And then you went down to Arizona and you did a couple of races. We 

Ian: were here for a week. We did the last podcast. I drove down to Arizona. We met up just, uh, and some random piece of road, um, just east of [00:07:00] Phoenix where the time trial for the.

Ian: First race began. So we did that. It was, uh, the valley of the sun, um, road race. 

Matt: You had a time trial. How did my wheel, did you use those? I did use your wheels. Are they okay? They hold up? They didn't explode on you? 

Ian: Yep. They, uh, they did good. I beat, I beat Lance Hepler by 0. 8 of a second. So I think it was the wheels.

Ian: I lost. It was the wheels or the skin suit or something. Yeah. Anyway, uh, that was a three day stage race. So Valley of the Sun was an awesome event. We did a time trial. We did a, uh, 50 mile road race. The next day we did a downtown fast and furious criterium. It was great. How was 

Matt: that? Was it scary? 

Ian: Yep. It was full on.

Ian: It was full on. It was, it was intense. Wow. So Valley of the Sun, then we, uh, spent a few days riding, uh, all around the Phoenix area. And then we [00:08:00] went down to Tucson. We started the Tucson Bicycle Classic, which was another three day stage race. 

Matt: Wow. 

Ian: Starting again with a time trial this time, just a short one, like an Eddie style four and a half mile.

Ian: full on time trial, which was the prologue. Uh, next day was, uh, another 60 mile hilly road race and then followed by a circuit race. It wasn't a criterium. It was a hilly circuit race for just a 30 minute race. I think I saw footage from Lance 

Matt: on that one. Looked hard 

Ian: and it was hard, but it was great. Like it was, there's so many people there.

Ian: I can't tell you the scale of these events. It's like nothing you ever see up in the Pacific Northwest. 

Jake: Besides the weather, what are they doing right that we're not? 

Ian: Well, we can talk, we'll talk about this later because this is one, it's a thing I want to talk about. Okay. 

Jake: Maybe a question for us to use later in a particular topic that we're going to [00:09:00] be doing this week.

Jake: Maybe. All right. There you go. Yeah, 

Ian: definitely. It's a massive event, a huge production that the city is involved, the police departments involved, uh, there's people coming from all over the country, like literally hundreds, probably. I think that Valley of the Sun, right? Lance was something like 800 people there.

Lance: The Valley of the Sun was a thousand and, uh, the Tucson bicycle classic was 800. 

Ian: Yeah, it was amazing. And, and that includes. Uh, women's fields that were over a hundred deep and includes juniors fields that were over a hundred deep. And get this, the 60 year olds, the master 60 year olds, there was 60 plus guys in there.

Ian: So It was refreshing. You know, you feel like you're competing with your peers again. You, you have real competition, real competition. Like some of these guys are ex pros, ex Olympians. 

Jake: [00:10:00] Wow. 

Ian: Full on man. Anyway. Cool. It was an awesome experience. Um, we rode. Quote, casually unquote, um, for a few days around Tucson before all the rest of the Dyle team showed up and the Dyle training camp, which was for me, six days of riding was the normal, um, you know, basically it's a six day stage race with 16 of your closest friends.

Ian: How 

Jake: about just a couple of highlights from that trip? Like, Hey, what did you think about the place where you stayed? It was new to the team. We'd never stayed there before. And you guys had catering. How was that? 

Ian: Awesome. We, we all agreed that we, we need to book this place soon for next year. So you want to 

Jake: go back to Tucson for 2026?

Jake: Personally. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 

Ian: right. Lance. I mean, it was, it was a great setup and all kudos to Mr. Hepler there. He, he, he got it sorted out. 

Jake: Yeah, boy. Yeah. And what about the, the week itself? What was the [00:11:00] best ride of the week for you? 

Ian: Um, I like day two, we went out to, uh, Colossal Cave and, um, Pistol Hill and that area, that was really cool.

Ian: Uh, we did Mount Lemon again, that was probably my worst day, uh, had some issues with my Achilles tendon and, just generally feeling Not so good that day, but, uh, probably the highlight was joining on with the Tucson shootout. 

Jake: Oh, okay. Yeah. 

Ian: Lance and I, and who else was a bunch of us jumped in there. Uh, we started off in a group, which was quite possibly 200 people.

Ian: It was insane. And as soon as we got through the neutral zone, it took off like you wouldn't believe. So it was a good experience. Cool experience. You know. So maybe that was the best ride. I don't know. It [00:12:00] depends how you define best. It was the most intense. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And then, um, came back, drove home.

Ian: Took me two, two long days in the van to get back here. Uh, dodging snow storms and it's fun anyway. Cool. Uh, that was. That's about it in a nutshell. 

Matt: All right. I'm sure 

Ian: Mr. Harper can add to that. It was a, definitely a joint experience. 

Jake: Gotcha. Well, we're about 12 minutes into this thing, so let's see here. I don't know, another 20 minutes and we should get to the show.

Jake: Lance, you want to backpedal for us? 

Lance: I'm afraid to start talking because there's so many stories I could tell that it would just, it would, it could get ridiculous. Let me just start off by saying, if you want to see footage of any of these days or any of these races or, or any of the rides that we've done in the last three weeks, it's all on YouTube.

Lance: So you'll, you'll be able to see some stuff there if you want to, but. This to [00:13:00] to kind of put the last three weeks in perspective It might be the like best three weeks of writing and training i've probably ever had in my life It's been it's been that good. It was so good to be able to share almost all of that with ian Um, we've become pretty good like similar training partners and training buddies and that has that is just added to Added to how much of all this has been so it's been really great the um The this the the road stage races Ian, Ian was kind.

Lance: We got our asses kicked. We both got, we both got just kicked in the teeth. The value of the Sunstage Race, the fields, Ian was in the 60 field, I was in the 50 field. They were open fields, no categories. Which meant all the Cat 1, 2s, 3s were all in those categories with us. And so, Um, my [00:14:00] field was actually combined with the 40 year olds So it was all the 40 year old and the 50 year olds all these freaking former National champions and olympians.

Lance: I'm not kidding. It was it was nuts our field the 40s and 50s were like It was like 100 people or 110 people total and I believe I finished I actually the the 50 year old there were like 65 of us and I finished 21st In GC overall, I got smoked, 

Ian: but that's, that's not really getting your ass kicked.

Ian: That's a solid mid pack finish. I think, I think we belong there. We did it. We, we, we finished mid pack. 

Lance: You definitely belong there. You definitely belong there. Start with that. I think getting, I think getting dropped on the road race made me feel like I did not belong there. I mean, I, I dug so deep and so hard.

Lance: To try not to get dropped on the road race. And I still got dropped on the road. 

Ian: I did. [00:15:00] Let me just say, I didn't get dropped. 

Lance: Lance 

Jake: can ask you a question real quick. Were you carrying any fatigue into that? That you're like, ah, kind of overdid it like the day before the week before the month before, or did you feel pretty solid?

Lance: Um, we did train through this. We didn't treat these as a races. These were full on like training experiences. But I don't I don't think that I've held a whole lot of fatigue My body's been responding really well so far this year to what i've been doing And so I didn't feel like I was carrying a lot of fatigue.

Lance: What I am carrying is 175 pounds. And when there, when you hit a, an uphill, you know, a mile and a half or two mile uphill section, I just can't stay on with these 140 pound guys that can do the same watts that I can. And so that's, that was kind of the big thing. On, on the flat course, like the, like when we had a flat.

Lance: [00:16:00] Criterion I didn't get dropped. I was able to stay on on the flat crit, even though we average like 28. 4 miles an hour and it was full gas with attacks and all that stuff. I had a little incident where I ended up on a sidewalk for part of it. You can see that on my YouTube channel, but I mean, it was I was super pleased that I got through that so.

Lance: The Valley of the Sun was actually a really good experience. Moving on to Tucson Bicycle Classic, I actually think the Valley of the Sun was organized a little bit better than Tucson Bicycle Classic. Yeah, I agree 

Ian: with that. 

Lance: Yeah. And, and And I'm still a four on the road, so I had to enter the four five race and I thought, Oh, I'm going to be racing with the four fives, the category four fives.

Lance: Um, it's also a bunch of juniors. They were going to separate out the 50 year old eventually. And I thought, Oh, I'll be able to compete. I'll be able to do well here. Well, these are Arizona fours [00:17:00] and I got my ass kicked again It was like it was not better although Um on the on the road race Was it the road race on the road race?

Lance: I didn't get I didn't get dropped in the road race but uh, I but I wasn't able to like sprint for anything either so It was it was a little pretty intense and I still ended up mid pack. I ended up mid pack and gc Um for the four fives, but I ended up third Overall in GC for 50 year olds. Cap 450. Yeah, Cap 450.

Lance: So that, you know, grain of sand there. Or, you know, take that for what it's worth. But, it was great experiences to kind of, to kind of go through those and to race with a bunch of fast people and to kind of feel how fast a peloton can move and being comfortable riding close to people. There was a big wreck in my 4.

Lance: 5 race that I was able [00:18:00] to avoid. Luckily, Um, but yeah, it was, it was good experiences. I, I mean, I enjoyed that I did them. They hurt like hell when I did them and I suffered immensely at all these races, but that was the point in doing them. So 

Ian: it kind of gives you faith that, um, road racing is still alive and kicking.

Ian: Right. When, you know, just the scale of those events and seeing how many people were participating, it was a huge deal. So. You know, people say road racing is, is dropping away. It's not, there's no future for it or it kind of makes you feel good about it. 

Jake: Did they happen to mention how these numbers compared to years past?

Jake: Are they seeing an uptick? Are they seeing like plateaued or is it falling off for them as well? I mean, if they're at a thousand now and they were 1500, I don't know, five, 10 years ago, I mean, that would give you some pause for concern, but it sounds like it, it might be doing just fine down there and maybe even rising.

Ian: I can't answer that. Yeah. What do you say Lance, [00:19:00] do you know? 

Lance: I I think part of the reason is there's not many stage road races left in the u. s There's only like seven or eight And only four that are actually uci races. We talked about that on the last podcast So there's not many stage road races left.

Lance: So that's what's attracting people to these The, the Valley of the Sun race was one of the races where they had specific junior fields. And so it attracted every, like every junior team in the country was represented. Every team that had like a big junior field that are trying to get points for UCI points or, or to work up to a world tour team.

Lance: They all had people at that Valley of the Sun race. There were 200 juniors racing in that. In that field. So it was, I think that was part of it and it's kind of build as the, if you're, if you're a junior road racer, this is the race you don't miss. You need to be at Valley of the Sun. So [00:20:00] I think that's part of it.

Lance: Plus the weather and plus it's Phoenix and I'm sure that had a lot to do with it. So pretty crazy. Good. 

Jake: Are you going to talk about your, the very last ride you did? 

Lance: Oh, you see, I'm not even there. I didn't even talk about training camp. I mean, 

Jake: all right, sorry. Carry on. 

Lance: Actually, our training camp ended up really great.

Lance: Uh, for whatever reason, I'm, I'm probably as fit as I've been for one of our team training camps. And so I was actually able to mix it up on almost every ride that we were mixing things up. I mean, We did the Mount lemon ride. It actually was a day I felt pretty good. And I, I set like a, I said a 10 minute PR for that two hour climb, which is pretty well 

Jake: took 10 minutes off your PR.

Jake: So you went sub two hours. Yeah. 

Lance: Yeah, that's correct. Hour 58 

Jake: or something like that. If I remember right. 

Lance: I. I went [00:21:00] an hour 58 for the whole 21 mile segment. Yeah, that's awesome I took 10 minutes off that which was was kind of amazing And then a lot of that was because of the people I was riding with and I was able to stay with I mean We were able to work together and that made a big difference uh, so that was huge the showing up at the tucson shootout with with 10 of us all in orange kits and and I think eight of us starting with the a group like but guys we're just gonna hang as long as we can and uh nate scott and uh, aaron sander They ended up hanging and paul first they all ended up hanging on that a group a little bit longer than I was able to but it was That was a race experience with our team that I think was pretty invaluable to to To be a part of a huge ride like the tucson shootout where there's 200 people out there That it's full race pace full gas [00:22:00] um for several different sections, but then you have a chance to regroup and then Tear each other's legs off again.

Lance: That was just that was a fantastic experience. It was it was very cool It was extremely difficult and that was the point in doing it. So it was a pretty cool experience. Um, The rest of the week we did some other big rides and I just was still feeling all pretty good. So I was pretty hot and rarin and Heavy to go and screening camp trot, you know treated us great.

Lance: The house was fantastic. The food was beyond our expectations It the whole thing just ended up really good I'm talking up this training camp like everybody should go on because I think everybody should go on one. It was really good Although there's limited there's limited spots for these things. So that's what makes it difficult.

Lance: So it was all pretty cool So 

Ian: yeah, I mean the house where we stayed was They'd hosted other training camps, cycling camps as well. So it was all [00:23:00] set up with, you know, there was, there was all kinds of things. There is like very, uh, friendly for sure. And, and the catering too was like, she was catered specifically to athletes.

Ian: So the food was good, but very good, but very healthy as well. 

Outro: Nice. Yeah. Very good 

Ian: to what happened, uh, the other day, Lance. 

Lance: So, yeah, so one ride too far. Uh, I took a day off and then we came up to Scottsdale, um, the cactus cup mountain bike race. Is happening today and tomorrow although a bunch of the events were canceled today because it's pouring rain in scottsdale today go figure Yeah So they they actually had to cancel like the short track race and a bunch of the time trials that they were planning on Doing because it's it's raining in scottsdale today, and they don't know What to do in the rain.

Lance: It's kind of funny anyway, um But I we came up yesterday and I just got my mountain bike out to make sure [00:24:00] everything was working good And I did a little pre ride And oh my gosh, my legs feel good after this training camp and taking like a day and a half off and so i'm really excited and i'm pushing around some corners and I don't know what the hell happened.

Lance: I think my rear tire Slid lost traction and then I pedal struck in the midst of that And I just went right over the side of the bike landed right on my back and my head And, uh, destroyed a helmet, yeah, I destroyed a helmet, I think, I carry my flat kit in my middle pocket, in my jersey middle pocket, and I landed right on that, and, uh, it caused like a dinner plate size contusion on the small of my back.

Matt: How's the, is your head feeling okay? 

Lance: Yeah, my head was totally fine. I actually I knew that I hit my helmet and I but I didn't realize I had [00:25:00] cracked it I didn't lose consciousness. I felt like I was okay. If you watch the youtube video you can hear me Like weaving, like a somebody who is just had their, had the wind knocked at them, because that's exactly what happened.

Lance: I was going to say, 

Jake: did you get the wind knocked at it? Because that's what you sounded like, a person that's trying to get that going again. 

Lance: Yeah. I cut out the, the noise of me cussing like a little school girl because it sounded so bad. I was waiting. It was so scary. 

Jake: I was waiting for ice cream sandwiches, man.

Jake: What happened? 

Lance: I just, I, I was, I was trying to like edit it quickly. I didn't want to add a bunch of other crap. Ice cream 

Matt: sandwich. 

Lance: There were, there were many F bombs that were dropped as I was trying to like come to terms with what just happened because I couldn't, because it happened so quickly, I wasn't sure exactly what happened, but yeah, there was 

Ian: that scary moment of assessment when you.

Ian: [00:26:00] Quickly trying to figure out how badly you're broken and how badly your bike is broken. 

Lance: So I stood up and realized, Oh, I'm okay. I'm actually not even, I was not, not even bleeding anywhere. I didn't even cut anything, but I had this huge contusion on my back and, um, that's enough for me. Not to race to just pull myself out of this.

Lance: I this which is not a Uh a decision I take likely especially how freaking expensive this race was to register for but um And then this morning when I woke up, I I discovered, um, all the ribs that I bruised and I didn't realize I had done All 

Jake: right, none are broken though. Yeah, I don't think 

Lance: anything's broken.

Lance: Yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't think anything's broken but like I've been fighting a cold. I obviously I Did my immune system a number with all this training and racing and so I caught a cold [00:27:00] and so the coughing and the Ribs are not a good combination. I need heavy drugs. Somebody please send them 

Matt: Are you gonna take a little tiny breather break to let your body come back around or?

Lance: Um, I, I have to. Yes, I am. I mean, the intention was to do this race tomorrow. I think, I thought I had a shot at actually winning my, my category, even though I registered as a, as an elite this time, not an elite, but as a cat one, um, you know, uh, racer in my, in my age group. And I thought I had a shot at winning it.

Lance: That's kind of how good I felt, but I'm not, yeah. I'm not doing this race. My next race is actually next saturday And i'm just going to rest probably until that race which is next saturday and hopefully i'll be good enough to go So that's the deal 

Jake: Cool. You done? 

Lance: That's it. That's, yeah, I guess I'm done.

Lance: Was it 20 minutes, Jake? Solid. Solid 

Jake: 20 minutes. 15 [00:28:00] or 10, I don't know, but Not bad, dude. Good job. Jake, backpedal. Lance, get up. Get yourself healthy. I don't want you to like Get hurt and all of a sudden like miss like three weeks and lose all that training that you just diligently went out there and do it Me neither crushed.

Jake: So 

Matt: Jake I saw you online on Zwift like one day. I don't remember which day it was You did totally random and I I like I rode with you For a little bit and tried to ride in front of you so that you could see that my name You know name tag on Zwift or whatever 

Jake: really 

Matt: and then I couldn't hang with you very long.

Matt: So I 

Jake: Didn't even know no. No, I'm sure you're 

Matt: like watching the show or whatever You know, I mean like you're zoned out. I might have had my head down I think you're probably pushing like 400 watts, you know, zone two, and then you pulled away from me. 

Jake: I wonder if you caught me on the day that I was doing my shorter intervals.

Matt: No, no, I don't think you were going that hard, but it was, it was like, you know, you were doing, you know, 200 and something and it was about, yeah, 

Jake: well, I guess over the last three weeks I rode if it's been exactly three weeks, 27 times, so I've been maintaining [00:29:00] my six days a week. I'm at about nine hours a week on the trainer, so that's like what riding what 35 hours a week outside.

Jake: Right? I don't know if that math was perfect, 

Matt: but 

Jake: it's definitely, um, uh, a factor of something because nine hours on a trainer sucks and doing that week over week has been kind of crappy, but I am ready to ride outside. I just need to get my bike set up so I can do that and have it sync up with some good weather.

Jake: Go do the bike stuff outside. And with the time change coming this weekend, uh, we'll have a lot more opportunities. So, and I'm stoked about the fact that this is what you've been 

Matt: waiting for this time change. Oh yeah. Every single year, every year, 

Jake: every year. And that means that the weekly ride will be out 

Matt: in the evenings for a little bit longer for us.

Matt: It's huge. 

Jake: But yeah, I've just been getting my rides in and feeling. Pretty stinking good. I've been doing, um, structured work. I've been, you know, piling up on the, the zone two stuff and my, you know, the, the Watts that I'm holding for those zone two have been slowly creeping up, which is good. I'm feeling, feeling that.

Jake: And I've actually had a few rides where I've ridden for two, two and a half [00:30:00] hours, and I only got off because I had other things to do. It's not because I wanted to get off. Cause I was dying. I was like, I feel pretty good. I could ride for another half an hour or 45 minutes if I wanted to, but I just didn't have the time.

Jake: We need to go for a lunch ride sometime. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. But yep, all that's going well. It's got, I've got some structure in there. I'm doing short and long and medium intervals and everything else in between. So yeah, 

Ian: we need to, we need to bring back the post podcast rides, this. Oh, yeah. 

Jake: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Jake: That's, that's a for sure thing. So, all right. Enough of me talking about Zwift because that's what everybody wants to listen to. Um, Hey, we're going to punt on the whole, uh, Champ Bailey lead out news thing. So we can do that maybe next week because. Everybody's been all over the place. He's on, he's on vacation.

Jake: He's 

Lance: on injured reserve. He's on injured reserve. 

Jake: But I do want to say that it makes me super happy when I do get on the trainer and I see that, you know, road racing has been back for quite a few weeks now. And, you know, he had like the tour of the UAE tour and a few other Oman and [00:31:00] Oh God, they've um, spring classics coming up here soon.

Jake: Yeah. So you got strata Bianchi coming up this weekend. So it's, it's definitely there and there's nothing like watching. Some of that racing, or even just the longer recaps when you're on the trainer, because it just gets you pumped up. So tune into that stuff and get yourself caught up because it's fun and it's going to be a fun season.

Jake: Um, yeah, so we're going to, we'll do champ Bailey stuff next week, but let's, um, let's move on real quick.

EPO Chainmail: People don't. Yeah. You know, this is a sport with literally hundreds of dollars on the line and dozens of fans that Stakes are medium. Come on. How do you beat a man on drugs if you're not on drugs? Wait, did you just admit to being on drugs? The EPO Chain Mail. Send us a text with your questions. Forward this podcast to 15 people.

EPO Chainmail: And you'll lose 10 pounds overnight without even trying. [00:32:00] You've got mail. 

Jake: Obviously I haven't had a chance to shorten that up. So I hope you like the long version of that. All right. We've got a few questions that have come through from several different folks. Uh, first one comes to us from Los Angeles, California, and this is a question that.

Jake: It kind of, it's talking about the AI training. So basically they're saying, or they're asking, we have a lot of options today from AI training. So, you know, use your whatever training platform. They're just about all offering something to some degree. There's also structured training plans that are more fixed.

Jake: What's the best training strategy sans a coach for moderately trained time crunched athletes, um, that want to show steady progress. Do you guys have any. Any input there? 

Ian: Well, you know what I'm going to say is why songs a coach, right? It must be, 

Jake: it's probably a financial thing. Financial. So I guess, 

Ian: um, yeah.

Matt: Trainer road, I think probably is one of the best options for. I'm not saying that their AI system is [00:33:00] like the absolute best, but I do think that they do a good job with it. And they have a lot of data that they're leaning on to generate some of their training programs. Um, so they also just announced, like I didn't think about this, but they just announced this partnership.

Matt: It's not really a partnership, but this integration with Zwift. So that it's a little bit easier for you to pull in those workouts into Zwift. That's brand new as of like, I don't know, sometime in the past week or two. I don't want to give you an exact date, but it's very, very recent that you're allowed to do that.

Matt: So, um, Lance will probably chime in on pricing of trainer road, but uh, it's probably not the cheapest thing. Especially if you're combining it with Zwift or whatever, but it's a good option. 

Jake: The question kept going, I needed to scroll up to see the whole thing. No, that was my fault, I didn't scroll. The person finished by saying, if it's a, uh, some AI driven approach, which do you prefer?

Jake: Is it a wash, e. g. use what you got, or is there a clear winner? I'm planning on [00:34:00] getting a sports specific coach in the next six months, but the planning, uh, out the training arc is something I just don't have the time to, to do. They just want us to make it easy for them. So that's, Oh, 

Matt: sounds like they may be more of like a program together as opposed to like specific workouts.

Jake: Yeah. I mean, I guess you could kind of couple the two things together. So 

Matt: just go on any AI system. Does it, you don't have to pay, you don't have to pay a dime for it and have it generate you like a six week program until you're ready to bring in a coach. Yeah. You know, and then, cause you could even say like, I'm going to have a coach at a certain point.

Matt: I'm guessing that you could even say something like within the AI, like I want to focus on endurance. You know, that sort of thing. So that when you do have a coach that can do some more refining, my guess would be that that coach would be like, okay, it looks like you've been doing some decent base work here.

Matt: Let's work on refining where you're at. And then, you know, applying it more towards the specific race schools that you have. So, 

Jake: yeah, I think all of them are going to provide a pretty good outcome. Structured program. I mean, some of them are going to be very heavy on [00:35:00] the, you know, the sweet spot stuff.

Jake: Some might be a little bit more polarized and not for nothing. Different people respond differently. Like Lance loves himself, some sweet spot stuff. I personally don't like that. I, I, I respond much better to something that's more polarized. And I think that I get better benefits from it and I don't carry as much fatigue and I feel like I'm fresher and stronger when it comes event time.

Jake: Lance is going to be very different than that. So a 

Ian: good approach would be to go to training peaks, to the training peak store and browse the 

Matt: buy a little something from there. 

Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They, they, they, they have plans. A lot of coaches have uploaded plans, you know, they're not interactive, but you might find something that suits.

Ian: What you want to do, what your goal events are, you know, or your style of training, you can browse through them. And a lot of those plans, you know, you're looking at 10 weeks, uh, say a 10 week FTP builder and. 30, 40, you know, for the whole, [00:36:00] for the whole thing, um, it's pretty good. And then, you know, if you're thinking about working with a coach in the future, um, maybe check out that coach's plans and, um, 

Matt: Oh, that's a good way 

Ian: to kind of see if you like the coach, see if you like the coach, see if you like their style of, of, 

Jake: uh, training.

Jake: Yeah. And another thing real quick to add to this is like any of these programs for your average cyclist that say, you know, just a novice or, you know, maybe like You know, weekend warrior or you're more enthusiast, like what would you call us? I don't know. You know, we're definitely like amateurs at best, but you know, we're not going to be, these guys are trying to go from, you know, 5.

Jake: 7 Watts per 9 Watts per kilogram. Like we're not at that echelon and those guys are going to need some stuff. That's very specific. So. I guess what I'm trying to say is that pretty much anything you follow is going to give you results. You just have to find something that's going to work well for you and not hurt yourself and not overdo it.

Ian: Yeah, true. You know, as you get fitter, your, uh, the gains get smaller and [00:37:00] smaller. So if you're starting from quite low down on the spectrum, I guess you, you, you're going to make fitness gains, whatever way you approach it. 

Jake: Yeah. I guess my only recommendation to add to that would be though, is if you are going to do something where it's just kind of like.

Jake: Alright, let's try this. Take into consideration if you're going to be getting ready for an event and make sure that you reverse engineer it so that you go into that event as fresh and strong as you possibly can. Start 

Matt: with the end in mind. Usually when, that's what I do when I make up a training program, it's like, here is the date of the race.

Matt: And then, you know, you can work back from that really easily where you have peak mileage, certain time frames, or you have You know, you know that the week before the race is probably going to be a bit of a taper or maybe two weeks before the race depends on kind of the event itself. So definitely work backwards.

Ian: And I think, I think most of the training plans on offer in the training peak store are tailored to specific event types. Like you might have a 10 week road race, uh, you know, 10 week, a hundred mile road race. [00:38:00] Um, Preparation plan or criterion or, uh, 16 week, you know, two hour mountain bike race prep plan, something like that.

Ian: So. 

Matt: Yeah. Show up around. We don't have a ton of details on what you're specifically training for, but definitely keep that in mind. 

Jake: Yep. Lance, do you have anything 

Matt: to 

Jake: add to that? All 

Matt: right. All right, Lance. Moving right along. Good job on keeping it short, Lance. 

Jake: I wonder if you put us on hold to go potty or he's got a back issue, but all right, let's move on to the next question.

Jake: And this question, um, Wait. No, 

Lance: I, I am here. I, I had put myself on. Yeah. I'm mute for the, for the party. So hold on. I've got, I've got a lot of thoughts on the comment. So pinch it off and 

Jake: he's ready to go, huh? 

Lance: Yeah, I'm ready to go. Um, first off in full disclosure, um, Ian coach Ian Gibson has several plans for sale on training peaks that he has devised himself.

Lance: Plus he's probably The [00:39:00] most, uh, cost effective bang for your buck personal coach you could probably find. So thank you, sir That's just a little, uh thing for coach gene gibson 

Matt: checks in the 

Lance: experience both. Yeah All right. I've had i've had experience both with trainer road and with coach cat so they're both Similar, uh, AI driven coaching platforms, and they both have a feature nowadays where you can put in a specific event and it will backfill the entire training plan for you for that specific event.

Lance: You just have to know what your specific event you want is your a race for the year. Those systems don't work very well for me because I race 40 times a year. And so picking a races is actually really difficult for me. So, but if you know specifically what race you're gonna do, it will, it will backfill your entire, like training leading up to that so that it, it, so [00:40:00] both, both, coach Kat will do that and Trainer Road will do that.

Lance: So they, they both will help out quite a bit. So that's, that's my thought. Which one's better than the other? I. I don't know. Trainer road is like 24 bucks a month and coach cat is actually very similar But i'm paying like 15 bucks a month for coach cat because I bought during like black friday when it was half price So that's why i'm still using coach cat.

Lance: Um, but they're but they both will give you Will give you like a a green or a yellow or a red Like this is this is what you look like today like how you should be training today They both can change your they can change your workout for the day on the fly through ai So like you can say hey, i'm not feeling that good.

Lance: Can you adjust that? Um that workout so it's just a bit easier and they'll change it for you and put it right into your program Uh, really easy. So they both do that [00:41:00] and um, they both integrate with Zwift now, although the TrainerRoad Zwift looks pretty unique. It will actually recommend Zwift workouts for you every single day you log on if you have an annual plan with TrainerRoad.

Lance: That's my take on those, so. 

Jake: Cool, good info. Alright, here's the next question. I actually kind of really like this one because it's making me think and I don't know if I have an answer for it. Um, coming to us from Portland, Oregon. With all of the advancements in bike tech, what old tech do you keep around despite newer or higher end alternative new tech stuff?

Jake: Anything that's old school that you keep around in favor of the new school, new tech, high tech stuff? That was a good question. And I'm, I'm kind of like racking my brain, going from head to toe, and then thinking about from front to back of my bike. And Mike, there's not much that I can say that I've kept.

Jake: The only thing that I would want to keep, which we're kind of coming back that direction is getting away from those freaking. Um, press fit bottom brackets like that was the tech for a long [00:42:00] time. And I've, I've, I've hated them ever since they came out, I've hated them. And I would much rather stay with an older, you know, threaded bottom bracket.

Jake: That, that works great for me. But now that we're coming back to like that T 47 threaded stuff that, um, you know, kind of gets away from that press fit stuff. That kind of makes that null and void. I'll say, yeah, go ahead. 

Ian: I've got a specific bike that I ride in the winter. My rain bike, it's got fenders on it.

Ian: It's still carbon fiber. It's a nice, it's reasonable bike. No, no, no. It's like a no name brand carbon fiber frame. I think I bought it from back. Nash Bahar a few years ago, but anyway, what I like about it is it's still got mechanical shifting and sure. My race bike is all electronic. My gravel bike is electronic and that's great, but there's something really cool still about the simplicity of a mechanically shifted bike.

Ian: Once you get it adjusted, right. The, the main thing is the, the beauty for [00:43:00] me is I don't have to think about freaking charging my batteries. Like I count the batteries on my BMC. I've got two in a handlebar shifters, one each in each, um, 

Jake: derailleur, 

Ian: derailleur. I've got a 

Jake: power meter, battery, 

Ian: power meter, battery, battery.

Ian: I need to be concerned about on my head unit. I've got a battery on my radar, my heart 

Jake: rate monitor. 

Ian: Yeah. Heart rate monitor, all that stuff. It's like some on any given rides, I'm going to be out of a battery somewhere, but I jump on my, uh, rain bike. It's kind of refreshing just to get on it and ride. And it's just, yeah.

Ian: Little more clunky, you know, but there's something 

Matt: there I agree with you There's something nice about to be like I pull this cable and this thing shifts. It's just simple like they're There's real value there. I think still how about 

Jake: you have 

Lance: um a derailleur hanger [00:44:00] straightener That's about as old school as you get.

Lance: And I don't think we, I don't think I can do away with the derailleur hanger straight. Obviously I bend too many derailleur hangers, but 

Jake: that's a piece of tech. Slowly but surely going the way of the universal. Oh yeah. 

Matt: But that will be something I'm excited about. 

Jake: Cool. Anything else from you, Matt? Did you, what'd you say?

Matt: Um, nothing super technical. I mean, I, I'm, I'm, if, if you guys have followed this podcast for a long time, you know, that I'm quick to jump on latest tech stuff because that's the game that I like to play. But you know what? Like there's old saddles that just fit just right that you don't like that just work.

Matt: Yeah. And I'm not big on changing out saddles. And I'm, I think I'm one of the, Maybe Lance is one of these people too, but like one of those people that I can handle a lot of different saddles, like I'm pretty happy like you throw any saddle on. I feel like I can go out and do an hour and not have problems.

Matt: Um, but man, there's just some like the old stuff that you've used for a long time. You're like, Oh, [00:45:00] this fits like an old pair of shoes. That's just like nice. Like this, this thing works. 

Jake: I've, I used the same saddle for probably 10 years and there was new saddles are always coming out and try this, try that.

Jake: And I recently switched last year. And tried one of the 3d printed physique saddles. Okay. I really liked that saddle and that stayed on my bike But I still love my old saddle. And so what I do with my old saddle is I put it on the trainer 

Matt: Yeah, there you go. 

Jake: And that's kind of where I'm at. Yeah, it's kind of nice stuff.

Jake: So yeah, cool All right ready for the next question? Yep I have a week long bike trip coming up with some of my buddies and we will be in much warmer weather Um much warmer climate than he's normally used to You know, writing and training and aside from stocking up on the sunscreen, uh, what are some things to consider when jumping from cold to hot weather writing?

Jake: And I figured this was timely. You YouTube jokers just got back from many, many weeks of writing in nice weather was, uh, what's, what's the pro tip from you drink 10 

Matt: X what you're used to. 

Ian: Yeah, I mean, it's all [00:46:00] about hydration. I think that's the most important thing, um, for sure. But aside from that, I mean, you just acclimate after a while, but it's a shock to the system when you first get down there and it's super hot and it does, it does take it out of you physically a lot more than, 

Jake: yeah.

Ian: And you used to, but, um, yeah, hydration and, um, nutrition, you know, keeping you calories up. Yeah. And for me too, 

Jake: I've, I've found in years past, there are certain base layer pieces that you can wear. You think, well, I'm putting on more clothes. It's going to make me hotter, but there's actually certain base layer pieces that actually will kind of retain a little bit of that, that sweat, if you will, and that evaporative cooling actually helps keep you a little bit cooler, um, and it can actually provide a little bit of UV protection as well.

Jake: Cause a lot of these race jerseys, the really thin lightweight ones that They're, they're not impermeable to UV rays and so you still can get burned, you can still get like excessive exposure. So it kind of helps block some of that out. 

Ian: I don't know where, I don't, I don't know where they're going in for a [00:47:00] hotter climate, but when we were in Arizona, uh, the surprising thing was how cold it was.

Ian: Oh really? You know, some of those races started super early in the morning and it was freezing. And so you had to. Yeah. You had to endure an hour of just being cold as hell because you knew that as soon as the sun came out, it was going to warm up quickly. So just having that, 

Jake: were you wearing a vest that you could take off and put in a Jersey pocket?

Ian: Dude. I was. I was warming up on the, on the rollers with my down jacket on in the morning. But then when, uh, when I rolled up to the start line, I just sucked it up. Cause I knew I did not want to overdress, right. I would rather be cold for a little while. And then, and then, um, you know, be, be, be right for the actual event.

Jake: It wasn't a 2017 Kings Valley moment. I 

Ian: would, I would fall. I would take being too hot over too cold 

Jake: [00:48:00] out on the bike. Lance, you bounce between climates often and you're always having to pack for all different sorts of climates, but you probably see more variances than anybody. I know. I mean, what are some pro tips that you have?

Lance: Um, one of the things that I've figured out about myself is there's certain nutritional items that I prefer and certain electrolyte mixes that I prefer. And so, like on this last trip, I stocked up on those before I left so I could take them all with me. But I had I had the electrical light electrolyte mix that I liked and I had it with me And I still ran out.

Lance: I still ran out. Um, even kind of did the same thing where The last week the last like four days ian had to like Amazon stuff to the house we were staying at because we ran out of the nutrition that we prefer, uh, while we were there because we were just riding and racing every day. We [00:49:00] weren't going to the bike shops and perusing their racks of of nutritional stuff.

Lance: So knowing what you like and making sure you have enough for you for the rest. And I took enough that I thought I had enough and I still ran out. So 

Jake: bummer, but 

Ian: yeah, 

Lance: that's 

Ian: part of staying hydrated, staying up on your electrolytes. Sure. The show and that's, I mean, it sounds obvious, but 

Jake: gotcha. All right, let's move on to the next question.

Jake: The new Silca ultimate sealant. How stoked are you? Is there an argument for tubes anymore? You guys have any input? That stuff 

Lance: looks really, it looks really fricking awesome. The beauty of this new sealant coming out is that it's supposed to plug even larger hole diameter issues with your tires without plugging up your valve core.

Lance: Correct. If that actually is true If that's true, this isn't the, this is like a game over for tubes. 

Jake: There's, I 

Lance: honestly [00:50:00] believe that. 

Jake: There's a few more things to add to this stuff too, that make it really cool. They, the first go round of the stuff was actually really quite good. And they use this stuff called fiber form in there.

Jake: So just think of like long shredded strands of like carbon fiber that's intermixed with the sealant. And it works really well for plugging up the holes. However, you have to actually break the seal and pour it in. You cannot put it in straight through the valve core. And then the other issue that people were having as well as it, it would work its way up in the valve core and it would actually plug those up to a degree and you're the, the, the core itself would just completely get gunked up.

Jake: The valve stem would get gunked up and it was just kind of a hassle. And then you had to use a special thing called a replenisher that you could put down the valve, but. People didn't want to have to buy replenisher and sealant. And it was just, it was good. It was just a little bit more like, I don't know, involved a little bit more work.

Jake: Thank you. So the new stuff they've, they've kind of re engineered it. They're calling it the version two and the fiber form is still in there, but it's in a much smaller form factor now. And it still has the ability to create these little mesh [00:51:00] coagulations, if you will, that will puncture the seal of punctures.

Jake: And they're showing that it's actually sealing, uh, punctures up to six millimeters in diameter. Almost a hundred percent of the time, 

Ian: six millimeters, six millimeters. 

Jake: And they were taking multiple kinds of tires, like, you know, like mountain bike and gravel and road tires. And of course, like, uh, you know, a gravel bike or even a mountain bike for that matter is going to do much better because it's got lower tire pressure and it's going to seal up quicker versus like a, you know, road tire is going to have significantly more tire pressure in there.

Jake: So the chances of losing a little bit of air is, you know, pretty much the higher likelihood. However, it was still sealing it in at a rate that like. Trumped everybody else. It was one of those things that the other sealants just could not hold a candle to these guys. Let me ask you to put 

Ian: it in through the valve stem and 

Jake: you can put it into the valve stem.

Jake: That's huge. Yeah. 

Matt: Let me ask the silica question. Go. How much is it gonna cost me? Is it like 5x the, 5x the other? 

Jake: It, it, um, I'd have to go double check. And, and it's kind of funny that this question comes up. We [00:52:00] literally, I think it was this morning, had You just got it in? Yeah, it just, it finally arrived.

Jake: We ordered this stuff a couple weeks ago and it was supposed to be here, but they, their inventory stuff was kind of off. Maybe I should put it in my mountain bike. Yeah, well I don't think it was much more than what they were charging before. It was a touch more for the older stuff. So if you're buying like orange seal, and let's say you're getting like an eight ounce bottle, it might cost you 10 bucks or 15 bucks.

Jake: And the silica was like 18 bucks. It was a couple of bucks more. But if you asked me, I think it worked a little bit better, but this stuff is so good. They do a great job. Here's the thing that I absolutely love about it though, aside from all that stuff, you can put your sealant in there. And there's a really good chance that you don't have to put more in for the rest of the year.

Matt: They're saying that you can Does it like, get old and No, it's not What do they call those like It's not drying up. What do they call those like, rats? The boogers. Boogers? Yeah, the sealant boogers. 

Jake: So, it's not drying up Sealant rats? I think I've 

Matt: heard something like that. Yeah, 

Jake: it's lasting for up to a year.

Matt: Wow. That's crazy. Whereas most 

Jake: other sealants, you're having to top them off every two, three, four months. And some of us 

Matt: don't take care of our bikes as well as we should. [00:53:00] 

Jake: So I really like the, the notion behind this and yeah, it very well could be a tube killer. I, it will be going in all of my bikes and I definitely will be trying it out.

Jake: Is 

Matt: it tube killer? I think tubes are, are already becoming a thing that we're like, Oh, I couldn't get this. This you know filled or whatever it is you switch the tube and that's it That's all we use tubes for we're not like going around using tubes Yeah, 

Jake: and there's still a ton of people to use tubes. I can't tell you how many tubes we saw at the lab It's kind of crazy But just there's so many people that are just scared of the whole notion of what tubeless is but you know to each their own Yeah, but yeah, what do you think lunch you stoked on this stuff?

Lance: Yeah, I'm completely stoked on it I'm gonna buy I'm gonna buy a vat of it and bathe in it. I'm so happy. Okay 

Jake: all right, um The last person comes to us from Connecticut. So the question was Do there's a couple things that they [00:54:00] post here. They're not all questions Um, Oh, that was nice. Missing the podcast.

Jake: Hope all is well and you guys are all not frozen. Yeah, we're, we're still here. We're still alive. Sun's coming out. All right. The, the last one is the team camp looks like a lot of fun. I I'm guessing they were watching your, your videos, Lance. It's also very expensive. What would you, what would you say is a reasonable price for a week camp?

Jake: What is the minimum you would expect from a camp? How would you do it right on a tight 

Matt: budget? You guys did. A very nice place to stay and food that must have been expensive you guys want to divulge the price of the training camp 

Lance: Uh, I I people are not going to be happy when they hear this. 

Matt: Okay, let's hear it 

Lance: price of both accommodations and dinners for seven days six nights Was 420 

Jake: per person.

Jake: That's absurd. So cheap. You can't even freaking stay the holiday in and eat at freaking McDonald's for that much money over the same [00:55:00] period of time. 

Lance: No, and part of that was because of the, of the place ranch, the place we found it's, uh, um, there's a sliding scale with that, um, place. And so I would have guessed like 10 X 

Matt: that that's what's so crazy about it.

Lance: Yeah, so usually so usually a training camp our team training camps. We've tried to keep the costs Under a thousand dollars per participant including your airfare And your rental car portion that you pay for so we've tried to keep it under a thousand bucks But but we are a cycling team where we're not trying to make money from training camps if you if if you go to a If you go to like another training camp that has a coach and has rides and has meals, it's going to cost you like three grand for the week.

Lance: So somewhere between three, you know, 500 is what another like professional training camp would cost [00:56:00] you. Ours are cheaper because this is our own personal team and we're not trying to make money. We're trying to keep costs down as much as possible, so. 

Matt: Okay, does that answer the question or not really? 

Jake: Um, sort of.

Jake: I mean, years past. I mean, for us to, you'll go to Southern California. You're going to be paying, what, 300 ish for a plane ticket. You're going to be chipping in a couple hundred bucks for a rental car. The cost of the house is going to be another five or six hundred bucks. Then you got to factor in all of the food on top of that and depend on how much you eat.

Jake: You're probably looking at at least another hundred to 200. I mean, it really starts to add up. So the fact that you guys were able to do this on a much tighter amount of money or budget, if you will, that's fantastic, amazing. I mean, you can definitely do it less expensive. I mean, if you're, you know, if you've got a van for something, not everybody has a van, but you could take a van and you don't have to worry about paying for like hotels or VBRs or, um, whatever, you know, Airbnb's you can stay at hotels that [00:57:00] are cheap and.

Jake: I mean, it's, anyway you shake it, I think you're looking at probably about a grand at 2, 000, depending upon where you go and how long you stay there and, you know, 

Ian: it all adds up. I mean, some of that stuff, the, the food and whatnot you would be consuming anyway, right? But, but yeah, you, you know. Airfare, airfare and accommodation, basically.

Ian: Another thing you could do would be, um, splurge a little bit more on airfare, but then save a whole ton of money and go to somewhere like Tenerife for, uh, a week where once you get there, you're basically spending nothing. Food included, uh, coffee stops out on the road for less than two, two bucks. So that's one idea.

Jake: Yeah, it's um, it's, if you can stay somewhat local and your weather's conducive to that too, I mean. We, for us here, I mean, we could leave the greater Portland area and go east to like the Dalles or somewhere where it's not nearly as rainy and you could go stay [00:58:00] out there and you can get some sweet gravel camps out there and God, that's a destination for a lot of people across the country that would love to come here and do that.

Jake: I mean, that's a different way that we can skin that. Good point. 

Ian: True. But you know, it comes to February and. You just want to go get some warm weather. If you do have, if you've, if you, if it's within your budget, it's so worth it. It's a great thing to get away. If you live in a temperate climate, like, like the Pacific Northwest, where it's cold, it's rainy, you don't even feel like riding your bike outdoors.

Ian: You spend hours and hours on Zwift. It's so worth it to get out and feel that sun on your face again for a few days. Um, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, definitely put a price on it, but, but if you can afford it, it's worthwhile. 

Jake: You know, just save up to you have 52 weeks a year that you can throw a few bucks in the, you know, the piggy bank to do this, throw 20 bucks a week in there.

Jake: And then that'll add up and you can take that and go do something cool. 

Ian: The other cool thing is you can. You end up hanging out with your teammates. Yeah. So you get to know them. You sit around and you can talk like [00:59:00] normally you meet up with your teammates and you go for a ride If everybody's like dial cycling, but we always, you know, uh, try to pull each other's legs off and you basically have very little time to actually communicate with the people you ride with, but, um, it's nice.

Ian: It's a good. social, um, bonding experience. 

Jake: Cool. Yeah. Well, let's put a pin in that and say that's done for this week and bring it back next week. That was a bunch of good questions. I'll appreciate those and send more, more of them out here. They're fantastic. Um, we do have a little bit of time left, Matt, you've got to get out of here somewhat soon, so I think we've got just enough time to do this.

Jake: You gotta listen naked. Boys, I've got the hot seat. It's been a minute. Let's do the hot seat. Um, who would like to go first? I can go first. Unless you guys, well you usually go first, but I'll go first this week. Doesn't matter. Strada Bianchi is this weekend. Oh my gosh, you're gonna steal my question. Who not named Tadej Pogacar is gonna win [01:00:00] the Strada Bianchi.

Jake: Do you guys want to throw any names out there that you might think could do? Well, do you guys want me to give you a few names? I want to see who's in it. 

Lance: Uh, Pidcock. Vanderpool's not racing, but Pidcock is, right? Vanderpool's not in, but Pidcock 

Jake: is. Correct. So you've got Tadej Pogacar, you've got Mark Hershey, Pidcock, Mikel Landa.

Jake: Is Wout racing? Um I thought he was, but I don't think he is. I don't, he's not, according to this, he's not going to be there. So, um, you know, you've got some decent names. Uh, you've got a few guys that are actually looking pretty good early on. I don't know if you guys caught any of the races with Pitchcock when he was racing out there in the desert somewhere and crazy crosswinds and just riding away from people, which was pretty, uh, pretty amazing.

Jake: He, he looks, 

Ian: how can anybody ride away from. From Pog though, I don't know how you can beat that man in a race like that. 

Matt: It's just It'll be interesting to see, so, [01:01:00] I think my, I think my question, my hot seat question is just going to be dead here, but it'll be interesting to see how Taddei does in total for the, the whole like spring classic season.

Jake: Right. His team is looking on point right now. They are, they're all looking strong. They're all representing themselves well. And watching Taddei, like, mix it up in sprint finishes, I'm like, dude, what's going on here? He's looking, 

Ian: yeah, looking, I think Strada Bianca is his, definitely his race to lose. He, I think he will lose out on, um, Milan, San Remo, that's the 

Matt: one that he wants.

Matt: He hasn't gotten yet, right? I don't think 

Ian: he, yeah, I don't think he can do it, 

Matt: but you think that the hill that's in there is just, well, is that the one with the hill that's kind of. Towards the end. 

Lance: It's too easy. The hill's too easy though. Okay. It's not, it's not as much of a separation for Todd. Yeah, 

Jake: just looking at the starting list, I mean, there's a lot of big names there, but there's [01:02:00] nobody that sticks out.

Jake: I mean, Todd is a sore thumb in comparison to everybody else here, but, um. What about Hershey? Someone like that? Hershey's the, he's ranked number two. He's an American, right? No, he's Swiss. He's actually on a new team. He was on UAE. Um, gosh, it was right, right when Toddy was coming out, if I'm not mistaken.

Jake: He's on the Tudor Pro Cycling team now. Um, This is Strada still, right? Yes. And then you've got, uh, Magnus Cort. He's looking pretty strong this year as well. He's, I think, won a stage or two and God, he can sprint. Um, You've got Garou, you've got Pell the Bell, you've got Thomas Goons, there's some big names in there.

Jake: Again, there's nobody can be taught anything. I 

Ian: think, uh, Pitcairn stands a chance because he's got the bike handling skills to run away from all of those guys, including Pog on the, on the downhill sessions. Yeah. So he could do that again. And if he gets a big enough gap, then even Pog may not. 

Jake: I would love to see that.

Jake: However, he does not [01:03:00] have. Uh, Todd, his team, his team right now looks, they're on point. Yeah, it's going to be tough, but it'll be fun to watch. 

Matt: This is going to be one of those where he's going to call a shot. Here's where I'm going to take the lead. And he just does it. And it's just, what are you going to do?

Matt: Yeah. 

Jake: What 

Matt: are you going 

Jake: to 

Matt: do? 

Jake: Lance? You got any, uh, favorites in this? 

Lance: It's just so hard to bet against Pogacha. So, I mean, he held like 360 Watts for 80 kilometers last year when he attacked. So I, I just. I don't know how you bet against him. 

Jake: Yeah, I guess that's why we watched the race. All right, that was my hot seat question.

Matt: Moving on, Matt. My hot seat question will piggyback on yours. Okay. Because I had a similar question. Uh, my original question was, who do you guys think looks good for, like, overall for the spring classics? The second step, I'm only allowed one hot seat question, but the second part of my hot seat question is, what Americans are going to do well in the 

Jake: spring classics?

Jake: Ooh, um, you know who looked [01:04:00] good the other day? Um, oh god, the EF Foundation American, um,

Jake: Drawing a blank on his name. Come back to that. I'll come back to it, but, uh, Magnus Sheffield also looks pretty good. So he's, yeah. 

Ian: Powell's? 

Jake: Huh? Nielsen Powell's? Nielsen Powell's, thank you. Yes. Oh, yeah. He was, he was in a good position. He was holding on, rubber banding off on this, uh, stage. I don't even remember what race it was.

Jake: And I thought he was going to be able to get in there. Cause I think he was probably the stronger sprinter, but. He ended up getting fourth, but he still was right there and 

Ian: he looked 

Jake: really 

Matt: good. Overall, anyone else, Pogacar is going to have a good, well I meant like overall, non Americans in addition, Pogacar is going to have a good Spring Classics, we think?

Matt: Yeah, Vanderpool. MVP, we think is going to have a 

Jake: He's looking pretty on point. I mean, he came out and did his first race and just like I mean, he just, just wrote everybody off his wheel and had a commanding lead to, I wonder 

Matt: if they're going to look at the, the races and pick like, okay, the Milan San Remo for MVP, right?

Matt: Like, like that course suits him a little bit better [01:05:00] where, you know, who I'm concerned about a little bit as 

Jake: well. He, he's, he looks strong. He almost looks like he's. The racist that he's been in, he looked like he was just there for training, but he almost looked like he was a little bit like skittish, a little bit nervous.

Jake: And he's had a lot of crashes in 

Matt: the last year, a couple of past two years. Yeah, 

Jake: that, that I think is one of those things where he might be inside his own head a little bit right now. He just didn't look like the wild that we've all come to know and love. Just my two cents though, but Pitcock. He's another one that I'm yeah I have like with with a new team with a new attitude.

Jake: They're rallying around him. He's rallying around them They're all working together pretty well. It's a small team 

Matt: It'll be interesting to see if he has people on his team to work with. 

Jake: Yeah. Yeah, we'll 

Matt: see as we move forward now Next Totsie question, we gotta move fast, who's, who's next? Well, 

Ian: I don't know if this is a fast one.

Matt: Okay. 

Ian: Let me see, we just finished the Valley of the Sun and Tucson Bicycle Classic, which were immensely well attended. [01:06:00] Um, is it possible, could we ever see anything on that scale here in the Pacific Northwest or in the Portland area? How would that happen? 

Matt: Great question. Um, you've got to rally the, I kind of feel like you need to lean on the cyclocross community and like rally that group into doing something where it's like, Hey, cyclocross season is coming up and we all do this same thing.

Matt: We all do it. And it's like the big end of summer event or whatever it is, right. Where it's like something like that, where you kind of can rally more people just because when you're talking about the same numbers that you guys saw, like. thousand people or whatever. Like those numbers are massive when it comes to like our community.

Matt: So I think it has to rally multiple groups. 

Jake: There've been a lot of big stage races up here. You've got Walla Walla. You've got tour de dong, you've got, uh, Cascade, you've got Baker. I mean, those are all like kind of storied long running stage races. The problem is 

Ian: with all of those is that quite remote, like to Baker city.[01:07:00] 

Ian: It's been going for years, like you said, and I think they, you know, the attendance has been going down. I think they had less than 300 people last year. I don't know that for sure, but it's a long drive from anywhere to get there. So if you could bring an event, let's say a road event. Three stages, Portland area or Seattle.

Ian: How would you do it? How could that be a success? The very 

Jake: first thing that you need to do is you need to get the local municipalities on your side. And that's, that's probably the biggest obstacle because of the, all of the road blocks that they put up and then they make it cost prohibitive. And then, you know, that the amount of money that you have to go spend on like flaggers and port a potties and, and being able to close down roads.

Jake: I mean, they just nickel and dime you to death. So as a promoter, you're like. Why am I going to do this? Why am I going to roll the dice and try and build this big grand event where I don't even know if I'm going to make money? And then if I do make money, is it worth the millions of hours that I've got to invest in this thing just to make it work?

Matt: Here's, here's my, um, secret. [01:08:00] Secret suggestion for some race promoter you tie it in with another large event That's already going on in portland, especially if you're doing a stage race where you have like, let's say you have um Some part of it where you want to do Like a crit in downtown portland and you do it the exact same time as like the portland marathon So portland marathon takes for the top runners Two hours and a little bit of change for them to finish, right?

Matt: So, you guys could start a one hour race prior to that. Have it downtown. It's already roped off. You already have police. You have, you know, like, places to keep people from coming onto the road. You have all the stuff. In place. Yeah, and even more importantly you've got Thousands of people that are there to watch their loved one finish So you have more spectators than you ever would possibly get and you've got Potentially you've got the city on board for that particular time frame of shutting down the city.

Matt: Then you've got From a [01:09:00] promotional standpoint, you've got downtown Portland, you've got spectators that are going to be watching you race, you've got all of this momentum for like, building up the event, and building up the advertisements for the event, and you have, and for me, I think that attracts cyclists to come to it, because, man, this is going to be like, the showcase event.

Matt: Then you take the next two pieces of this, you know, stage race, whether that's like more of an endurance thing. I don't know. Maybe it's a TT thing and you move it away from downtown Portland because you're not going to have the same setup and maybe you can get some sort of discounted rates for things, but you have more people because you have this first initial part of the stage that's in downtown Portland.

Matt: You've got all the crowds and all that stuff. And you say like, okay, well that was stage one and you have stage two and stage three that are cheaper to put on. In a slightly different location, right? You're not doing downtown Portland three days in a row. The city's not going to go for that. But you can, you can kind of tie your, your own cycling traffic or whatever it is, like, you have your numbers and you kind [01:10:00] of say, okay, let's, you just need to finish out the stage, you know, day two, day three.

Matt: Sure. So something like that, I think could put, it could put a dent. I don't know that you're going to get, you know, a thousand participants, but I think it could put a dent into something like that where You know, you, you just have the allure of doing something in downtown Portland. Yeah, 

Jake: there's definitely that.

Jake: I mean, they do have a crit that they put it on in downtown Portland. So if they could make that happen, piggyback on that, that'd be fantastic. It just becomes a question of like, would the promoter let you do something like that? And then if you were to start an hour before, what time do they start those races?

Jake: It almost has 

Matt: to be the, you know, like the Portland Marathon promoter themselves doing it. I just 

Ian: don't think that a marathon running race course and A crate course. 

Matt: Are going to coincide. Coincide. No, but what you'll see a lot of times with a marathon is they'll come in and they'll do some sort of tangent and then they'll kind of finish the marathon or whatever it is so that you get to, you know, whatever they want to show off.

Matt: The waterfront or whatever it is, like they want to show off some little [01:11:00] piece and so they do like a little bit of wrapping and then they finish. And so I think it would, it wouldn't be the exact same course, but it would, it could be close enough where you say like, here's the finish line. It's going to be the finish line for the marathon, but it's also going to be the finish line for this crit.

Matt: And you go through it and you do whatever it is, eight laps or whatever. And there's another side street that you had like a connector street, right? You have to have a connector street from that finish back to the, you know, whatever part of the marathon course. And so I don't think it would be perfect by any means.

Matt: But I do think that you would have like the crit downtown, whereas the marathon, the runners are actually out there running further out on the course because, because they're actually all over the marathon race, doesn't do it like loops by any means. They're all the way out on the outskirts of Portland, 

Ian: but that's not even the hardest part logistically.

Ian: Like you can, you can shut down a few city blocks on a Saturday morning. You can do that. You could, you could hold a crit, uh, as we've done in downtown Vancouver, you know, that Um, that was difficult, you know, kudos to, uh, [01:12:00] Pacific office automation, uh, Davis, David and Travis for putting that on. Um, but how would you scale that up?

Ian: And like I said, that's not even the hardest part. Like some of those road races down in Tucson, they had actual sections of road completely closed off. Uh, some roads were closed in one direction. They had, they had the police force involved. They had the city involved. They had. I mean, it's a massive production.

Jake: Yeah. So first and foremost, like how remote were these roads? Were they areas where like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe they let them pull this off and there's a bazillion cars that are going to be pissed off because they can't drive through there. Is it like more desolate out there and there's just not much going on and it wasn't a big deal in the first place.

Ian: Um, In Tucson, you could say it was, it was that way, uh, back up in Phoenix. Uh, one of those roads was actually quite busy. And, uh, so it, it was a major interruption for traffic, I think. 

Jake: So, 

Lance: so [01:13:00] you'd have to have, they were. The roads itself though, where both those road races happened, were like 20 miles out of town.

Lance: Even though one was kind of busier, they were able to be kind of cordoned off so it didn't disrupt too much stuff. But there was, there was a police presence and there was roads shut down just for these races. So 

Ian: you and Nate 

Lance: I think that's, yeah. 

Ian: You would, you would need a promoter with balls to pull it off.

Ian: You would need, I would think you would need a major sponsor on board to, to help, uh, underwrite 

Matt: it 

Ian: because maybe they made some money on that. I don't know. You know, it was 200 bucks to enter these races and what you got from it was two paper numbers. There was no t shirts. There's no anything, right? I think the profiles, there was some cash prizes.

Ian: But, um, it was an expensive production. You know, if you, if you've got like, uh, [01:14:00] 50 police officers assigned to that, you're going to pay for that. I 

Jake: think the, the whole thing is kind of packed in that secret recipe of like, all right, let's take a look at the behind the scenes. How much did this cost you?

Jake: What kind of a relationship did you have with the municipalities and the police force and all these other things? It's just one of those things. Like once you can get that information that will tell you whether or not it's feasible here. Matt. Matt's got to get going. Matt, do you want to do one last thing real quick?

Jake: If you've got videos. One 

Matt: last thing, yeah. I posted a video, I think, um, last week, I posted a video and it's a fun one. It was on Apple Watches. Why is the number 1009 shown in all their advertisements? And it's a fun video. Go check it out and find out why Apple uses 1009 for all their advertising. One video 

Jake: in 

Matt: three weeks, that's all you did?

Matt: Uh, in three weeks. And before that, I did a, um, really cool video. The, uh, Garmin Fenix 8 after 100 days. That video did well. Good for you. Yeah, yeah. So, some good stuff. Sweet. 

Jake: Alright, man. Well, [01:15:00] thanks. It was good seeing you again. It's been a few minutes. Um, I'll catch you later. I'll catch you pretty soon, yeah.

Jake: Alright, sounds good. See you, bud. Bye. Um, anything else to add to Ian's question, Lance, you got anything else you want to add? 

Lance: I, I don't, I mean, the biggest thing for me is I don't, I don't know how promoters of road racing do it. I really don't. There's so many more expenses with the road race because of the roads shut down and because of the flaggers and because you have to have police and I don't, I don't know how they make it.

Lance: So, I mean, unless you have a city that is really on board and really wants to, you know, help promote it. That's what, that's, I think that's why these road races are dying. They're just so much more expensive to pull off. Why are they still working in Arizona? I don't know, because it's February and it's freezing cold everywhere else.

Lance: And the weather was actually decent in February in Arizona. I don't know why these ones are, you know, being pulled off. Yeah, 

Jake: I like, I like Matt's idea of the Portland [01:16:00] thing. I just don't see that being. I don't know, logistically possible. I just don't, I mean, there's so many roadblocks that get in the way.

Jake: And I've talked to people that have tried to promote stuff there and that have promoted things there and had to stop because it just was cost prohibitive or it's just too difficult. And they just didn't really want the people doing that there anymore. So they're like, right, well, we'll just take our race and go somewhere else or just shut it down.

Ian: I don't think you would need to have the city of Portland on board. You, you'd have the time trial out at, um. Vancouver Lake, you'd have the Criterium downtown and Camas or Vancouver, you'd have the road race out somewhere South. 

Jake: Sure. 

Ian: I don't know, but 

Jake: I do think though that there's something to be said about falling, finding a smaller to a medium sized town or little city that would be open to that and wants to do something to get people out and involved in the community.

Jake: And if you can put together a race that's financially feasible for you and somehow like. Have it built into your budget to be able to give something back to the city or something that the city wants to support. I think that that would be a good win win [01:17:00] situation. And if you can tie in some sort of, uh, sponsorship and some nonprofit things and like help out like, uh, at risk youth, or, you know, just little things to give back to the community.

Jake: I think that those cities would rally behind that. And that's where you, you kind of have to start that, that you just, that's where you have to go in my opinion, but I don't know. I've never done it before, so I don't know. Yeah. Cool. Epler, you got a hot seat question for us. 

Lance: No, we're done. 

Jake: Nothing, huh? No. Oh, all right.

Jake: Well, let's do one last thing then. Matt already went, Ian, it's your turn. Lance, you suck. 

Ian: Yeah, I'm just going to mention coming up on March 23rd is the annual Michael Myers Memorial trial. Yes, sir. I would love. Everybody to sign up, especially if you're on Dow cycling team, sign up to race. 

Jake: Are you seeing some decent registration numbers thus far?

Ian: We're seeing some registration numbers. All 

Jake: right, well, [01:18:00] let's, let's start beating that. 

Ian: We're three, two weeks away, but so it's going to be a fun day. It always is a great day. Um, if you have no experience racing at all, it's, it's totally, um, unintimidating environment, I think to, to, to pin on the number for the first time, if you.

Ian: If you're an experienced racer and you want to see how your winter training has been going and how fit you are, um, nothing tells the truth more than running against the clock. Exactly. 

Jake: Come on out. Kepler one last thing. 

Lance: Um, the first, usually the Michael Myers memorial time trials, the first race on the over calendar, but it got shuffled back a couple of weeks.

Lance: So. Our first two races happen next weekend saturday and sunday Saturday will be echo red to red mountain bike race put on by zone 5 promotions uh, and our friend scott schultz and Sunday will be real west gravel in [01:19:00] pendleton, oregon Which uh was being put on by mudslinger events and mike ripley. So two big events.

Lance: They'll both Uh, you know, I, I think Echo will be five or six hundred racers and Real West will be like three hundred racers. So there'll be a lot of people showing up and a lot of people throwing down. 

Jake: Hey Lance, Real West, correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah. Gravel State Championship race. 

Lance: You are correct. Yes, they have decided to make the very first gravel race on the calendar, the Gravel State Championship.

Lance: So that is happening next Sunday. Uh, for the over calendar, 

Jake: I'm going to probably get called a jackhole for saying this, but who the hell's idea was it to make the very first gravel race of the entire season? One of the very first races of the season be the state championship race. That's like going to the first day of school and saying, who is the first day of school first day of class?

Jake: Oh, by the way, you've got finals today. Wait, what? . [01:20:00] Right. Why? Why do we think they, I know where the 

Outro: decisions are being made. They did 

Jake: that with Short Track last year too, and I, if I'm not mistaken, did they do something like that too? No, they didn't do with the Mount Bike stuff, but they've done that with other disciplines.

Jake: I don't get that. I don't Am, am, am I wrong thinking that? Is that just. Backward thinking or 

Lance: I don't I don't know what the rationale is exactly. I know that mike ripley is a favorite promoter of Yeah, 

Jake: but 

Lance: obra events. Yeah, but how many races will he put on the other event? 

Jake: Uh huh, 

Lance: he'll put on like 15 races this year and probably five of them I think there's five gravel races he has on the calendar I don't know because it's a it's a new race and it's a I mean, last year was the first year and it actually went off really well.

Lance: And so maybe that's why they decided, Hey, let's make this the state championship. I don't know. Are they trying to switch up where the state champion? I don't have an answer for you, Ian. It seems weird to me too. 

Jake: I mean, all right. I'm just going to bite my tongue. No comment. All right. My one last thing I am, I'm going to be gone.

Jake: I'm leaving tomorrow. I'm going across the [01:21:00] country to enjoy some spring break. The sunny state of Florida and I'll be going to Disney World with my kids and my family. So it just happens that that's my daughter, my oldest daughter's spring break. She goes to school at Penn State and it's, um, really like it was like for her to come home.

Jake: She would just be sitting in kind of, you know, equally. Weather, so we decided as a family, we're going to go to Arizona, which was Arizona, but we're going to Florida and we're going to be there for five or six days or something. So it should be fun. I'm just a little bit bummed though, because I'm getting all this great training rides and fitness and the time's changing and I wanted to go right outside and I.

Jake: I don't have that anymore. So can you take 

Ian: your bike with you? No, 

Jake: I wish I could. I do think though, where we're staying, I think my wife said something like there's a clubhouse attached to the Airbnb that has some bikes in there. So I'll probably be riding on like a recumbent or a Peloton or something stupid like that.

Jake: But I guess something's better than nothing. That's it. I'm done. You guys done anything else? We out. 

Lance: [01:22:00] We out. Don't miss, don't miss Pandora at night. In the animal kingdom. I just thought it was really cool. 

Jake: Okay, I gotta find out if we're even going into the animal kingdom or not. I think we're only going to the park for two days and then we've got a bunch of other excursions planned.

Jake: So, we'll see. Stay tuned. I'll report back. Never 

Lance: mind. 

Jake: Cool. All right. Well, again, it's good to be back here with you guys. It's good catching up. Lance, I hope you feel better. You're gonna be getting on the road when? Tomorrow you think now? 

Lance: Uh, I don't know. We probably might start driving in the next 45 minutes.

Lance: Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay, 

Jake: well, you'll be here when I get back and the gang will be back in town and we'll be getting together and doing our regular podcast y thing again. So, apologies for being off for a bit of time. That's never really happened before, but sometimes things happen and Gosh, we're coming up on, uh, the start of our eighth year, if you can believe that, which is bonkers, but as they say, ish happens.

Jake: So, alright, we will be back next week with another one of these and until then, arrive now.[01:23:00] 

Outro: Oh. What's wrong with you? Oh, it's either this show or indigestion. I hope it's indigestion. Why?